Naked Ape

Agreed, you seem like a thoroughly reasonable sort of fellow. I have no belief in spirits, ghosts, gods, or the supernatural, but I will confess to being a pantheist of sorts. My biggest pet peeve is fuzzy magical thinking, I don't only target theism per se, just the silly sort of piffle that you disbelieve in. I think blind faith is dangerous, to be frank, I think the whole concept of faith (defined as the act of unquestioning belief in absense of positive or despite negative evidence) is at best misguided. It sort of comes back to the "Test all things" bit again, or as I some times paraphrase it: "Prove It".

Cheers,

Naked Ape

ticcan

Its a biological imperative that kids are rasied by adults, its not am imperative that its the parents that raise them. However that wasnt my point, whoever raises the child does not have a monopoly on teaching them anything, thus if u teach something contrary to what a parent believes i see no problem with it.

I am not talking about wandering the streets teaching children things, i am talking about if u are with a child and they ask u something, you are free to explain anything you like to them, obviously this would be better done in a way that doesnt explain things to them as black and white

If your child thinks there is a monster under the bed and you say there is not one thats not going to make much difference to the child. But on this point i was more talking about morals and right and wrong, i dont think its healthy for example if you teach a child stabbing another child in the eye is a good idea when the parent has taught otherwise obviously.

Madkins007

You send your 6 year old child over to ply with my kid. You have raised your child in a peaceful, non-violent way that includes following the basic movie and TV guidelines- no PG-13, no TV-14, etc.

I decide that you are being too restrictive (even though I know your stand and why you think it) and go ahead and let your child watch the slasher flick I picked up.

I send the kid home and s/he has nightmares.

And this is all OK with you?

Ms. Siv

Well said

Evidence suggests that children are able to learn from a wide variety of persons and situations, and have the innate ability of 'code switching' i.e context-specific socialization. Children quickly learn what is appropriate to do at home, what is appropriate to do at school, at play etc.
So they have a very generalized potential for learning. They can learn from their parents, from other adults, and from children of all ages.
And most likely from all these people.

This "learning" does not proceed in the same way at different ages. Very young children learn through sheer imitation. Older children tend to select one or a few personalities that are authorities for them. They look out for these authorities outside the family.
Adolescents shift to a more critical and independent position - they readily acknowledge abilities that an adult may have developed, but they separate that ability from the personality of the adult. They learn, not from authorities, but from specialists.

There is an old African saying ... " It takes a village to raise a child " ... and its true.
If you think of it from an evolutionary point of view, it makes perfect sense. Just 2 parents (often just one full-time) could not possibly teach a child all the useful skills needed. An entire group of adults definitely could do a much better job.

whichphilosophy

For once I actually agree with just about everything you're saying here. I think the essence of what we can hope for the child when they grow up is they can evaluate and think for themselves.

And of course we don't expect young children to be "good" all the time and we should make more effort to spend time with them, than say glue ourselves to the TV for the night. (The program will be repeated a dozen or so times at least anyway).

Regards,

Ms. Siv

Thanks
You've put it very nicely.

Howmuchever hard to accept it may be, I guess parents just have to accept the fact that they may not have much of a say in shaping their children's character long term.
While this may be a terrible thing for parents to accept, the flip side is that they dont have to feel so stressed out about how their kids will turn out to be.

I love the way Judith Harris puts it ...

Claudia

If kids are old enough to ask direct questions, they are old enough to get direct answers.
But it does not mean that the adult has to jump in all the detail of the answer he would like to give.
He must be cautious, and verify that the question was really what he understood, and which level of answer is expected. Some times a kid just want a broad simple answer, but sometimes it only seems that it is what he wants, and in fact in his mind he focuses on a detail.
Now when you know that what you want to answer conflicts with the parents view, it is very important not to enter an unwanted level of detail. It is also important to say that it is your answer but not everybody would agree. (May be pointing specifically that the parents are among the ones who disagree is not a good idea, it is pointing at the potential conflict, when it is better to let the kid find by himself that there is one conflict, but it is not very important because it was not explicited).

Regarding your Sister-in-law, if she does not like the answer "I do not answer because your mother disagree", she only let you with the answer : "I think this, but not everybody thinks the same". It would be dishonest not to take one of these options, and she must know that you have no other option when comfronted with direct questions (ask her which one she prefers). Of course, she has the right to ask you that you do not initiate such discussions with the kids.

I do not think that it is teaching to kids something parents disagree. It is not teaching that there is no god. It is just teaching that there is no universally accepted answer. And I do not recognise the right to parents to let the kids think that everybody thinks the same.
But no need to emphasise on that when kids are very young. Let them know that diverging opinions exist, and then let go.

I would had be angry at someone who affirmed to my kids that god exists and their parents are wrong. I would not have been angry at someone whou had told them that he believes that god exists, but that I do not believe the same, and let it there.

The lady who had my kids on daycare had different ways of living than our family. Not strong enough that it was a problem, but enough that my kids realise that they had to behave slightly differently. They questionned me on that, and I answered them that in our family it was one way, in the other family another way, and that they had to obey to the uses of each house (again, differences were minor but noticeable). They were fine with that.

Jamie_L

I am very uncomfortable telling a child a lie in response to a direct question. Even on the Santa Claus/Easter Bunny issue, I don't think I would lie to protect the parents wishes.

HOWEVER, I am sensative to these issues, and on some topics I would probably resort to telling the child they need to talk to their parents about that topic, rather than giving a direct, honest answer.

And example of where this might be most appropriate is being asked about sex or sex/reproductive-related issues by a young child that is not your own. I would feel very uncomfortable entering into a birds-and-bees discussion with someone else's young child, so I'd refer them back to their parents.

With religion, I think I would tend to combine a dodge with a sprinkle of honesty. If asked "is such-and-such really true?", I might respond by saying "some people believe its true, but that's really something you should ask your mommy or daddy about." If asked "Do you believe such-and-such is true", I might be prone to give an honest anser of "No," but if asked to elaborate, I'd probably use a form of the "talk to your parents" dodge.

I don't think I should have to lie to anyone, especially not to children. I mean, if you were asked by the child of a racist parent, "Are black people really inferior?", would you answer "yes" if you knew that was their parents' wishes? If they asked you "Did Grandpa really go to hell because he didn't believe in God when he died?", would you say "yes"?

Expecting someone to lie is exceeding your parental authority, in my opinion. But there are ways to maintain your integrity when responding to these questions without trampling all over the parents' authority too.

Jamie