Failte

The "internet athests" you decry are actually qualified to refute your statements. That you will not change your mind means that this entire discussion is pointless. You've been shown to be wrong.

You posted substantially the same 'argument' here. The discussion of the word appears to start here on the hate/love less issue, , or here, or here, among others. These clearly show that your interpretation of miseo (which should be misew) is wrong and not supported by biblical scholars. This is by no means an exhaustive list of the posts regarding the word, just a few that standa out.

You may have to follow along for several posts, as the issue keeps popping up over and over. The word does not mean what you think it means. I'm not a greek scholar, but there are people here who do qualify (and I'm not sure whether they are atheists or not - does that really play into what you will accept? If an atheist says it, you automatically discount it?)

Since you have already made up your mind and won't change it, this won't make any difference. You simply keep saying the bible is infallible and thus you cannot be wrong.

If you came up with an supportable, valid idea that challenged one of my beliefs, I would consider it, evaluate it, and if it holds true, I would accept it. You seem to say that you won't even consider any idea that doesn't already fit your belief system. How sad.

Failte

And yet, I, an unbeliever - nay, a slanderer of gods name - am still here. I'm happy, I have good friends and family who love me, a job I enjoy, material success in life, good health, good opportunities, I help people and in return they help me, and in general I have a very good life, I live honestly and share that largesse with those around me. Oh, I've been told that I'll burn in hell by believers for years, when in fact I've led a better, more christ-like life than they have...just minus the actual belief in christ. Care for the poor, be honest, all that 'golden rule stuff" that seems to be less important to believers than acceptance of doctrine. Hmph.

I haven't suffered a whit from not believing. I haven't seen any sort of repurcusion for denying the existence of your god or any other. I haven't been smote down. Where is this pissed off god? Why hasn't he acted against the nonebelievers and the wrong believers? He used to. He used to smite people left and right and speak directly to them in the old testament. THe bible has lots of examples of him directly intervening when he felt he was being dismissed. Why not now?There was no waiting for 'judgment day' back then.

So now, god just waits until the very end, never giving you the slightest hint that you're doing the right thing or the wrong thing. That's better? That seems awfully capricious to me -- what if he changes his mind and what you consider "good" today is not considered good tomorrow. What if he's realy pissed that you no longer keep slaves? Or that you married only one woman? What if we should have been sacrificing goats all along?

There's no room for 'what if we were wrong' in christian doctrine. Doesn't that bother believers?

Withered

I feel the same way about this. Can someone tell me why there is no difference in the quality of my life and the lives of christians. We are indistinguishable from the believers, our lives have the exact same tragedies, successes, and wonders as theirs do...as do the muslim, and hindu, and jedi, etc.

It is almost as if there is no god involved at all...:constern01:
As if prayer and belief were no more than window dressing that had no real affect on our lives at all. Strange. Very strange.

storytime

Evidently the Jews also liked to pick and choose what rules they wanted to follow. John the Baptist and Jesus is the example of this. Jesus established a new sect under the banner of Judaism and expected his followers to be a unified force within that name and identity of "Jewish". He declared his disciples as judges of the 12 tribes of Israel. Jesus did not establish a new religion outside his Judaism, he simply thought his way was the better of what existed at the time with Pharisees, Sadducees and the elders.

Christianity as seen is an illegitimate construct to the Jewish Jesus in his Judaism. With no laws and no covenant, the Christians are a form unto themselves. If there were ever indeed a Jesus, he would not accept a Christian using his name in vain.

storytime

"God" was the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob[Israel] only. Therefore, there is no god involved at all outside that "kingdom of God" domain. No window dressing can force another construct through the back-door, so to speak. God knew his boundaries as he recognized other gods of other people.

Failte

Wait- are you saying that god (jewish), god (christian) and god (islam) are entirely different constructs? All three share the old testament, the disagree on prophets, of course, but share the "god of abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" in the old testament. They are the same. Now, I'll grant you that the interpretations since then have diverged, but the god is the same one.

Or did I misunderstand your comment?

WVIncagold

NOpe but sure sounds like your pissed at your innablity to keep gods laws. I on the other hand am not jewish nor do i pretend to be as do christians. No where in the bible did you get permision to not keep gods laws. even in the NT jesus says to keep gods lawas and keep them holy. All 613 of them. He was jewish after all. So you say your saved si mply by asking? So then Why do fundemetalist Jews keep Gods laws? Seams to me you must do allot of praying for forgiveness each and every day. Since you probably are clean shaven you pray to be forgiven for that. do you keep milk in the same fridge as you do meat? need to pray for that. Or do you just pray for forgiveness for all thiose things you will sin and do nopt even try to keep holy each day? So your nothing but a lazy jewish wannabe? How convienent. And if god is all forgiving as you say why did he command the 613 laws in the first place? Knowing full well you would not even attempt to keep them? I see how you are trying to throw your religious responsibilities back on the unfaithfull but I and other Atheist no more need to keep your religious laws then i need do for Hindu laws. It isnt my god. It isnt my faith. the burden of keeping those laws is on YOU. nobody else. So basically Christianity is for those to lazy to be jews and keep the lawws god gave as COMMANDMENTS. Unless of course you can show us where Jesus gave those to lazy to keep gods COMMANDMENTS a get out of perfoming those things god told you to perform. No where did your Jesus say ignore the laws my father has given you.
So these are some really easy ones but you apparently are to lazy to do.
Wear a teflin on your head?
wear a teflin on your arm?
as a makle you are required to write your own sefer Torah (but i am sure it gets into your tv watching time.)
and i am sure you eat niothing but kosher animals and foods? If not why not? this is a simple dietary constraint commanded by your god?
How about any laws of the Nazir? These laws are all within your ability to do yet you do not? why? Your god hath commanded it? Why sin when you do not have to? Has god hargdened your heart to him that it would make you ignore his laws?
So who is worse. The atehist who does not believe in your god or any gods due to the lack of evidence. Or the believer who totally rebels and does not even try to keep their gods laws and who shows nothing but contempt and expects a free pass because you believe god had a kid?
The laws i mentioned are well within your power to NOT sin. They arent like catching a womens breast in your eye path and having a thought that may be indecent (thats biological and you have little control over) these are laws you have total control over yet my guess are just to lazy to do them.

semiopen

A lot (I think most) of the commandments only pertain if the temple exists, so I guess when we say sadly, we mean that it is sad that the temple doesn't exist anymore.

There are also some commandments which are weird such as the Beautiful Captive Woman.

Deuteronomy 21-11-12

Borat

There is also the chasing the mother bird away from a nest before taking her eggs.

Deuteronomy 22:6-7

The long life promise is unusual, so some religious Jews will go out and look for this.

IBelieveInHymn

I'm done telling you "the Church" in the bible was not a place of worship. If you would like to further this debate, then I suggest you goto college and study the bible.

Sai

Kinda like we'd like you to go to college, or even open a text book about geology and observe for yourself that the bible story of the flood is completely incompatible with the actual evidence. Its fun to have debate but quoting dishonest websites (with no actual knowledge of your own to contribute) is not the way to further a debate.

I suspect this study wont ever take place tho as it will lead as inevitably as 1-2-3 to the realization that the "flood" didnt happen. But there is an up side... it would save a lot of time wasted studying the bible.