gracebkr

They never found Genghis Khan's body either, maybe he was totally fabricated.

ziffel

Uh, that lame article simply attempts to justify the bible's assertions by ... you guessed it, referring to the bible.

*sigh*

Do you have any extra-biblical sources? The bible is not proof of itself. That's idiotic.


from the article:

Do you know why they have to rely on "early church traditions" ... because they have nothing else to rely on.

EarlOfLade

Ehhh..

The Gregorian Calendar, which is the one we use, was devised in 1582. The one used before, was the Julian Calendar, but you probably knew that and only wanted a cheap shot.

Draconis

Genghis Khan conquered most of Asia and the descendants of some of his mongolian armies can still be seen in places like Samarkand where they wouldn't otherwise be, for instance. A bit hard to fabricate, I think.

On the other hand, someone who leaves no physical trace, only a bunch of odd people who run around imagining that someone allegedly got killed isn't really dead, did a load of magic tricks, etc etc, well that is questionable to say the least.

gracebkr

Well, we all have to die in the physical. No matter how hard we pray, our bodies will die. When I was four my father died from brain cancer. I believe he is still with me. When I was 15 years old I heard a Led Zepplin song on the radio, California dreaming, I told my mother "I love this song!" She said to me "This was your father's favorite song." I never forgot that. Last year on Mother's Day, I was driving to go see my Mother and that song came on. I know to some that is a co-incidence, but to me it was a Happy Mother's Day from my father. You have to understand I live in the country, there is only like 4 stations we get out here and they are all country and one is news. One is also for the younger generation, hip hop and stuff. So 2 are country, one news and one hip hop. It is very odd to even hear California Dreaming on a Chicago station, so I think it had to be more then mere coincidence.

makebate dags

Are you talking about people who's lives are total wrecks and then get saved or something? Not the beliefs but the actual actions attributed to a system of beliefs? Probably not though but just to entertain a thought for a moment... and writing the thinking of it.

My dad attributes his staying sober for many years to AA and his christian beliefs. But he doesn't of course think of them as "beliefs" (as you've en-quoted the word in your OP) He thinks Jesus (God, holy spirit, or whatever) did it.

So is that proof that Jesus saved my dad from alcoholism? I don't think so.
Correlation doesn't prove causation, this is to me a powerfully succint truth. However, I do think my Dad would honestly think this is; as you say, Irrefutable evidence that Jesus saved 'him' from 'alcoholism'.

Probably not what your getting at but just a thought that occured to me
from what I'd think is a matter of perspective and perceptual set about
reality; that although I am now an atheist I could imagine from a christian
POV this question would seem quite non-sensical. As a former believer I
feel confident in saying that most believers think of Jesus as this real
entity that actually is doing things for them. Which also from an atheist
POV seems equally non-sensical.

I can hardly say if posting this makes any difference whatsoever but I
do like to think that doing this is at least worthwhile. I've also enjoyed
reading this thread so far and think I've garnered at least a few
insightful thoughts that wouldn't have occured to me otherwise. I write
this only for your consideration and haven't presumed to make any
unsubstantiated statement nor to prove in any way that some 'actual' Jesus entity has intervened in the life of my father but nevertheless that
his belief in such has in some way been attributed to his recovery from
alcoholism which I don't expect is an incredible claim at all; but just to
say because I thought it might be worth the doing so. For some maybe
rather empty but how bad was it really? Odd to feel so much concern
over this at the moment. How odd. I could've left that last part out
probably or more than that. Ok then.

all over,
- Dags

Biff the unclean

So your dad liked a song on the radio. And you, listening to the same station hear them replay the same song.
That is less than coincidence, that’s pathetic.

gracebkr

I can understand that doubting the whole of a tradition and what a tradition is really based on. But traditions passed down should not be *fully* discounted. Think of Santa Claus, that too is a tradition, but it holds the truth in it. There was a Saint Nikolaus, he did give to people less fortunate. This tradition has changed some, but the essence of the character whom is real, has stayed the same. The flying on sleigh, coming down the chimney etc. is obviously fake, there is still truth in it however.

EarlOfLade

And many countries, including Norway were I come from, there is no Santa Claus, but julenisse. Looks the same, but has nothing to do with religion and never will have anything to do with it. In Sweden, he is called Jultomte, which also has nothing to do with religion. A tomte and a nisse, are small friendly trolls that is said to live on every farm in the country.

Read up in the history of Yule

And when it comes to prayers, does not work. And the bible says, in at least 20 different verses, that you can pray for anything, no restrictions, and you will get it. So, maybe you can explain why there is not a single amputee who has gotten a limb grown back?

Ref John 14 13-14

Johann Sin

Yup! And the Yeshua of Nazareth, son of god, virgin-birth, water into wine, walk on water aka Messiah aka Christ is fake

Nah, just kidding. I don't know, but considering the current lack of evidence and the level of extraordinary of the claim, I would say that there is no good reason to believe that such a fantastic story is true.

I'd sooner admit that Harry Potter exist and that broom can fly. At least I KNOW JK Rowling wrote the book and that she exists.