Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 01-29-2008, 04:53 PM

It would appear the the greek term "chrestos"
is to be associated with the epoch BCE and
with a collegiate temple structured "priesthood"
(of various healing cults) as a form of degree of
the adepts and priests of those temples, etc.

The term "chrestos" was perhaps a title confered
upon graduation from some specific ascetic practice.

As distinct from a specific meaning within this
context, the word was used to mean "good".

Now many christians have jumped on the band-waggon
of finding 1st and 2nd century CE references to "CHRESTOS"
and labelling them as "Christian!!!!!!!!".

How about the earlier non-christian citations
to the use of the greek word "chrestos"?
How are these to be reconciled?

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

From here:

Quote:

TG Chrestos (Gr.). The early Gnostic form of Christ. It was used in the fifth century B.C. by Aeschylus, Herodotus, and others. The Manteumata pythochresta, or the "oracles delivered by a Pythian god" through a pythoness, are mentioned by the former (Choeph. 901). Chresterion is not only "the seat of an oracle", but an offering to, or for, the oracle. Chrestes is one who explains oracles, "a prophet and soothsayer", and Chresterios one who serves an oracle or a god.

The earliest Christian writer, Justin Martyr, in his first Apology, calls his co-religionists Chrestians. "It is only through ignorance that men call themselves Christians instead of Chrestians," says Lactantius (lib. iv., cap. vii.).

The terms Christ and Christians, spelt originally Chrest and Chrestians, were borrowed from the Temple vocabulary of the Pagans. Chrestos meant in that vocabulary a disciple on probation, a candidate for hierophantship. When he had attained to this through initiation, long trials, and suffering, and had been "anointed" (i.e., "rubbed with oil", as were Initiates and even idols of the gods, as the last touch of ritualistic observance), his name was changed into Christos, the "purified", in esoteric or mystery language.

In mystic symbology, indeed, Christes, or Christos, meant that the "Way", the Path, was already trodden and the goal reached; when the fruits of the arduous labour, uniting the personality of evanescent clay with the indestructible INDIVIDUALITY, transformed it thereby into the Immortal EGO. "At the end of the Way stands the Chrestes", the Purifier, and the union once accomplished, the Chrestos, the "man of sorrow", became Christos himself. Paul, the Initiate, knew this, and meant this precisely, when he is made to say, in bad translation: "I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you" (Gal. iv. 19), the true rendering of which is "until ye form the Christos within yourselves".

But the profane who knew only that Chrestes was in some way connected with priest and prophet, and knew nothing about the hidden meaning of Christos, insisted, as did Lactantius and Justin Martyr, on being called Chrestians instead of Christians. Every good individual, therefore, may find Christ in his "inner man" as Paul expresses it (Ephes. iii. 16, 17), whether he be Jew, Mussulman, Hindu, or Christian. Kenneth Mackenzie seemed to think that the word Chrestos was a synonym of Soter, "an appellation assigned to deities, great kings and heroes," indicating "Saviour," -- and he was right. For, as he adds: "It has been applied redundantly to Jesus Christ, whose name Jesus or Joshua bears the same interpretation. The name Jesus, in fact, is rather a title of honour than a name -- the true name of the Soter of Christianity being Emmanuel, or God with us (Matt. i., 23.). . . Great divinities among all nations, who are represented as expiatory or self-sacrificing, have been designated by the same title." (R. M. Cyclop.) The Asklepios (or Aesculapius) of the Greeks had the title of Soter.

Toto · 01-29-2008, 05:29 PM

XRHSTOS and XRISTOS would have been pronounced the same after the first century, and were often confused. Mainstream Christians do not think they have anything to explain.

Please learn to use the search function or google

In particular these threads have some relevant discussion:

Chrestos and Christos

Chrestus/Christos

mountainman · 01-30-2008, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

In particular these threads have some relevant discussion:

Chrestos and Christos
Chrestus/Christos

Thanks Toto,

I'll need to look through these again.
What I am looking for are the primary
references from the following authors:

1) Aeschylus
2) Herodotus
3) these "others"
4) perhaps four

who each mention the term "chrestos"
in the epoch BCE. Any assistance
would be appreciated.

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

spin · 01-30-2008, 06:59 AM

Just for people's interest, here's an inscription from Rome which mentions a Chrestus who had an important job (a first on internet -- the picture's mine).

spin

Ben C Smith · 01-30-2008, 07:25 AM

CHRESTUS
LICTOR CAESARIS

Chrestus, a lictor [attendant to a magistrate] of Caesar.

Thanks, spin.

Ben.

yalla · 01-30-2008, 07:52 AM

Got a date [?] and a place spin?
cheers
yalla

spin · 01-30-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yalla

Got a date [?] and a place spin?

Unfortunately not a date. The stone was found outside Rome along the Via Appia -- one of the prime spots for burials, but it is not in situ, now standing along side the Tomb of Cecilia Metella and currently within the ruins of the Caetani toll fort where the Italian antiquities department has located a number of ancient fragments from the area.

spin

Huon · 01-30-2008, 08:40 AM

The french word for Christian is "Chrétien", with an "e", not a "i". But there are many bad christians around there.

spin · 01-30-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huon

The french word for Christian is "Chrétien", with an "e", not a "i". But there are many bad christians around there.

I don't know when the /s/ was lost before other consonants (have you got an approximate date?), but all the examples I seem to recall involved the use of, or lengthening of, a supporting /e/. Is there any literature available before the loss of the /s/ which mentions christians to show the source?

spin

mg01 · 01-30-2008, 08:58 AM

Outside the BCE era, I've also seen reference that in Marcion's writings he used Chrestos and not Cristos and that Hadrian used the term in relation to Serapis in Alexandria.

Also doesn't the Tertulian quote use Chrestos?

01-30-2008, 07:25 AM	#5
Ben C Smith Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 4,787	CHRESTUS LICTOR CAESARIS Chrestus, a lictor [attendant to a magistrate] of Caesar. Thanks, spin. Ben.

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01-29-2008, 05:29 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	XRHSTOS and XRISTOS would have been pronounced the same after the first century, and were often confused. Mainstream Christians do not think they have anything to explain. Please learn to use the search function or google In particular these threads have some relevant discussion: Chrestos and Christos Chrestus/Christos

01-30-2008, 06:59 AM	#4
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	Just for people's interest, here's an inscription from Rome which mentions a Chrestus who had an important job (a first on internet -- the picture's mine). spin

01-30-2008, 07:52 AM	#6
yalla Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: oz Posts: 1,848	Got a date [?] and a place spin? cheers yalla

01-30-2008, 08:40 AM	#8
Huon Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bordeaux France Posts: 2,796	The french word for Christian is "Chrétien", with an "e", not a "i". But there are many bad christians around there.

01-30-2008, 08:58 AM	#10
mg01 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: USA Posts: 197	Outside the BCE era, I've also seen reference that in Marcion's writings he used Chrestos and not Cristos and that Hadrian used the term in relation to Serapis in Alexandria. Also doesn't the Tertulian quote use Chrestos?

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