pbaylis

Source: http://www.ccel.org/pager.cgi?&file=...og/dialog.html

THE DIALOGUE OF THE SERAPHIC VIRGIN CATHERINE OF SIENA
DICTATED BY HER, WHILE IN A STATE OF ECSTASY,
TO HER SECRETARIES, AND COMPLETED
IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 1370

In the hope of passing on some understanding of God and our nature before Him and the means He uses to draw men to Himself. Perhaps pertinent given recent ecological and other diasters.

St Catherine, as did many other saints, gave ther entire life as a reparational sacrifice and atonement for the many discretions and affronts committed against the Almighty Father.

In speaking of mankind.....

"What fruit do they receive?

"The fruit which I destine for them, constrained by the prayers of My servants, is that I give them light, and that I wake up in them the hound of conscience, and make them smell the odor of virtue, and take delight in the conversation of My servants.

"Sometimes I allow the world to show them what it is, so that, feeling its diverse and various passions, they may know how little stability it has, and may come to lift their desire beyond it, and seek their native country, which is the Eternal Life. And so I draw them by these, and by many other ways, for the eye cannot see, nor the tongue relate, nor the heart think, how many are the roads and ways which I use, through love alone, to lead them back to grace, so that My truth may be fulfilled in them. I am constrained to do so by that inestimable love of Mine, by which I created them, and by the love, desire, and grief of My servants, since I am no despiser of their tears, and sweat, and humble prayers; rather I accept them, inasmuch as I am He who give them this love for the good of souls and grief for their loss. But I do not, in general, grant to these others, for whom they pray, satisfaction for the penalty due to them, but, only for their guilt, since they are not disposed, on their side, to receive, with perfect love, My love, and that of My servants. They do not receive their grief with bitterness, and perfect contrition for the sins they have committed, but with imperfect love and contrition, wherefore they have not, as others, remission of the penalty, but only of the guilt; because such complete satisfaction requires proper dispositions on both sides, both in him that gives and him that receives. Wherefore, since they are imperfect, they receive imperfectly the perfection of the desires of those who offer them to Me, for their sakes, with suffering; and, inasmuch as I told you that they do receive remission, this is indeed the truth, that, by that way which I have told you, that is, by the light of conscience, and by other things, satisfaction is made for their guilt; for, beginning to learn, they vomit forth the corruption of their sins, and so receive the gift of grace."

Queen of Swords

The description of Catherine of Siena being in a "state of ecstasy" makes me imagine her with her head thrown back, perspiring and trembling, dictating between gasps for air and pleas for god not to stop.

Mallow o' the Marsh

So... god had to cause the tsunami - because he loves us - and doesn't want us to get too comfortable on earth. But don't worry believers, it only killed the people that aren't "My servants".


Sorry for the mangled quote, and sorry for being flippant, but that is a pretty insensitive thing to say.



:rolling:

pbaylis

Fascinating stuff. I can't stop reading this. It seems to explain a lot about who God is. It totally debunks anything related to loving and admiring of self, and this is totally contrary to what we're taught in schools - you know...believe in yourself, a hero lies in you, etc. Talks about strength too..dealing manfully and patiently with trials, but humility in the sense of knowing what you are compared to God. Our earth can be hit by an asteroid, we can die by something as small as a virus. It seems that humility and love are the total key. We keep getting back to the corny saying from the 70's...."Love is all you need" and suchlike.

mirage

Yep, love plus a set of very specific beliefs for which no good evidence will be provided. And eternal Justice by torture if you get it wrong. Feel the love. Religion isn't just some sort of psychological moral guide, it's coercion by threat too. Stick as well as carrot. And atheists have the moral high ground on humility. We are arbitrary insignificant mortal specks in a tiny fraction of the universe. Not immortal works for which the rest of the universe is designed, made in the image of god who loves each individual one of us.

pbaylis

Well, this seems to be saying mainly "feel the love", no mention of religion or their acompaying rules. Quite the opposite...as I'm reading it seems to be saying that the outward show of anything is not all that pleasing and can actually be self-glorifying. What's pleasing is the good desire of the heart.

It does talk about Jesus and why His death was necessary and why suffering actually seems necessary today because of other people not feeling the love.

This isn't an atheist vs theists thing. Possibly just a clarification or pathfinder, for anyone interested, as to who God might be, who we actually are and what might be being asked of or given to us, minus the shackles of formal religion.

Not sure, maybe other folks see it differently. No harm done hopefully.

JPD

You might want to check the other threads pbaylis for responses to your posts.

pbaylis

No thanks JPD. Hopefully, I can leave all that behind. I've said all I needed to say to you. Some of my words have been harsh, but I hope I can be more tolerant in the future, mainly because I realise that fighting fire with fire gets me into trouble more than it does you. I love a good discussion, but don't think much of people who need a chance to practice their wit. If you're interested in this particular thread, great. Is that OK by you, JPD? Thanks again.

JPD

pbaylis, you seem to be trying to sneak religion in the back door when you think no-one is looking. It won't wash here.

JPD

I don't recall anything particularly harsh. I would be extremely impressed, however, if you were to return and answer the posts that you left dangling.