Freethought & Rationalism Archive

No Robots · 07-22-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Except for a disputed phrase in Josephus, is there any mention in Jewish literature (the Talmud, say) of a Messiah being turned over to the Romans for execution?

The Gospels make this claim, and they are Jewish literature.

aa5874 · 07-22-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

What I find sick is the obsession with external corroboration to the exclusion of consideration of the significance within Jewish literature of the Gospel claim that the Messiah had been turned over by the Sanhedrin to the Romans for execution.

Again, external corroboration does NOT exclude internal information, in fact, corroboration implies that both internal and external information be considered or compared, and it really does not matter if you catergorise the Gospels as Jewish literature, since it would still be an internal source for the Jesus stories.

mountainman · 07-24-2008, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonewall1012

Could the same be true of the converse? It is possible that there might be a hidden agenda to put the gospels in a different category in order to leave the impression that there is NO history with out having to actauly demonstrate it on a historical basis?

On the contrary, it appears that most of the people who think that the gospels are unique, in a genre of their own, are Christians.

Not many of the fiction theorists are christian, yet few would dispute that the gospels are unique, in a genre of their own.

Best wishes,

Pete

mountainman · 07-24-2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Except for a disputed phrase in Josephus, is there any mention in Jewish literature (the Talmud, say) of a Messiah being turned over to the Romans for execution?

The Gospels make this claim, and they are Jewish literature.

Why then were they written in Greek for a Greek audience?

Best wishes,

Pete

sharrock · 07-24-2008, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

The Gospels make this claim, and they are Jewish literature.

Why then were they written in Greek for a Greek audience?

Best wishes,

Pete

Which triggers the question, do we know (or can we hazard a guess as to) where they were written ?

No Robots · 07-24-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Why then were they written in Greek for a Greek audience?

Is the Septuagint Jewish literature?

Is a French version of "Romeo and Juliet" still English literature?

Is a film adaptation of "Romeo and Juliet" in modern English still Shakespeare?

aa5874 · 07-24-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Why then were they written in Greek for a Greek audience?

Is the Septuagint Jewish literature?

Is a French version of "Romeo and Juliet" still English literature?

Is a film adaptation of "Romeo and Juliet" in modern English still Shakespeare?

Who wrote Romeo and Juliet?

Shakespeare.

Did Shakespeare write English lirerature?

Shakespeare was an English poet and writer.

Who wrote the Gospels?

............................?

Were they Jewish, Greek, Romans, Egyptians, Arabians, ..........?

.............................?

Did they write Jewish literature?

.............................?

How can you tell what type of literature the Gospels are when you don't know who wrote them, when and where they were written?

If the Gospels were written in Egypt by an Egyptian for an Egyptian audience, would the Gospels be Jewish literature?

No Robots · 07-24-2008, 01:18 PM

Who wrote the Iliad? Is the Iliad Greek literature?

vid · 07-24-2008, 01:53 PM

Bringing this more to original topic, I still don't see how gospels are different genre than, let's say, Odyssey. Once upon a time, there was that cool guy, he travelled all around and made bunch of interesting stuff ... Where is some genre difference?

Ben C Smith · 07-24-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

Bringing this more to original topic, I still don't see how gospels are different genre than, let's say, Odyssey. Once upon a time, there was that cool guy, he travelled all around and made bunch of interesting stuff ... Where is some genre difference?

I recommend R. Burridge, What Are the Gospels?. He discusses various genre markers.

Ben.

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07-24-2008, 01:18 PM	#68
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	Who wrote the Iliad? Is the Iliad Greek literature?

07-24-2008, 01:53 PM	#69
vid Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Myjava, Slovakia Posts: 384	Bringing this more to original topic, I still don't see how gospels are different genre than, let's say, Odyssey. Once upon a time, there was that cool guy, he travelled all around and made bunch of interesting stuff ... Where is some genre difference?

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