Sven

I know. I didn't want to suggest that you object to evolution. Again: The only point is that an explanation involving a god is not scientific. You can believe as long as you wish in theistic evolution, I'm the last who would object to this.
Edited to add: As I already wrote several times: If you believe in theistic evolution, you are faced to find an explanation for bad design. But since this is only a variation of the "problem of evil" and theists usually don't think it's a problem, I guess you think you have a sufficient explanation for it.

Asha'man

Actually, trying to reverse engineer the designer is proof that the ID movement is not science, but religion in disguise. The ID proponents refuse to address the issue of ‘what can we learn about the designer by examining trends in the designs?’

The clear conclusion is that the designer (assuming there was one), was a committee of idiot savants. There are clear examples of horrible mistakes, inefficient design, and competing designs. Some design features are quite ingenious, but they are sitting right next to amateur mistakes.

Because this is not the conclusion that the ID proponents are looking for, they pretend that the issue is off limits and refuse to discuss it. Anyone with a real scientific motive, such as our illustrious Oolon, is more than happy to work on reverse engineering the designer. Therefore, ID is not science, but religion trying to disguise its nature.

RBH

Asha'man wroteOnce again, Multiple Designers Theory rears its head!

RBH

Evoken

Yeah yeah..God is an idiot..
No wonder we are done in his image
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Sven

Why I get the impression that I repeat myself?

"If you believe in theistic evolution, you are faced to find an explanation for bad design. But since this is only a variation of the "problem of evil" and theists usually don't think it's a problem, I guess you think you have a sufficient explanation for it."

Evoken

Actually Sven, you are not repeating yourself. This topic was started by someone who had questions about Evolution(I am one who has questions too) not as an ID or Creationist topic nor as a Goddidit type explanations or God bashing..just about Evolution.

For some odd reason..the atheists here like to mix Evolution with God(something that is totally unreleated to Evolution per se) and like to use Evolution to support their God bashing. This I see as childish and not even objective, no wonder Creationist are so opossed to Evolution..it is because of the bias of people who combine the Evolution theory with atheists propaganda.

Plognark

If you get the creationists to cut the shit with "Evolution is a plot against god!" we'll stop mixing the two issues together.

I can't roll my eyes far enough. They'll fall out of my head.

Evoken

Well as far as I know..Creationists..well YECs..are the smal minority, the only difference is that they are the most active or simply the loudest ones. But their "Evolution is a plot against god" is the result of a fundamentalist mindset or simply cognitive dissonance as I said earlier. But if when faced with an explanation about Evolution they enconuter in it some God bashing..they will..obviously reject it as a plot against God.

Plognark

True, however this:

Is equally reactionary/inflamatory.

Plus, it's not the fault of the atheists/agnostics/evolutionists that the stories of the bible do not match with observed evidence in reality. If you want to accept the biblical stories of creation as literal, then you can't have mainstream evolution. If you want mainstream evolution, you can't have a literal interpretation of genesis. There is no other option other than accepting them as some sort of myth or perhaps as being metaphorical. Or rather, no other rational option.

Evoken

Well it was not meant to be so..only speaking about many examples I was starting to see.

I agree on both points. In my opinion I don't think that The Bible needs to have the whole Evolutionary process in order to be valid or not I see it more as a summary of the creation and something that mirrors the following events. Altho if you read Genesis 1(KJV) you will see that all of creation was created thru the earth/water and not directly by God.