Freethought & Rationalism Archive

No Robots · 03-06-2011, 08:53 PM

There is indeed an important distinction to be made between the authentic Christianity of Christ and its distortion into Christian religion. This is a war within Christianity. Many anti-Christians take the part of the traditional religionists, and insist that these traditional religious authorities represent the true interpretation. This is similar to the anti-socialists who claim that that the Bolsheviks represent the true interpretation of socialism. And just as democratic socialists must fight both Bolsheviks and anti-socialists, so must the true followers of Christ fight both the Christian religionists and the anti-Christians.

AdamWho · 03-06-2011, 09:06 PM

Most evangelicals are not Christians, they are Paulists.

aa5874 · 03-06-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

There is indeed an important distinction to be made between the authentic Christianity of Christ and its distortion into Christian religion. This is a war within Christianity. Many anti-Christians take the part of the traditional religionists, and insist that these traditional religious authorities represent the true interpretation. This is similar to the anti-socialists who claim that that the Bolsheviks represent the true interpretation of socialism. And just as democratic socialists must fight both Bolsheviks and anti-socialists, so must the true followers of Christ fight both the Christian religionists and the anti-Christians.

And that is one of the major source of problem for MANKIND for hundreds of years so-called Christians are AT WAR and calling one another DEVILS.

Examine "Against Heresies", "Refutations Against All Heresies and "Prescription Against the Heretics.

Over 1800 HUNDRED years ago some Christians suggested that the Son of God was PURELY philosophical but other Christians claimed it was EVIL to think such a thing.

Some Christians suggested that Jesus was just a man but others suggested those who hold such view were of the DEVIL.

When will CHRISTIANS stop FIGHTING one another over a MYTH FABLE?

When will CHRISTIANS understand that if Jesus must RESURRECT to REMIT SINS that Jesus MUST be a MYTH?

ONLY a MYTH can resurrect on the THIRD DAY.

STOP the WAR NOW.

No Robots · 03-07-2011, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

STOP the WAR NOW.

Do you surrender then?

Perspicuo · 03-07-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilosopherJay

Hi Doug,

Good point. Putting a "Good" Jesus against the evangelicals "Bad" Jesus is a losing proposition. Their ideas and behavior mimic the outrageous ideas and behavior of Jesus and his followers more than the Jesus-as-Socrates preachers.

Christianity teaches people to be like Jesus, but the Jesus character in the bible is insane, For example, here's a description of his 70 or so sayings from the Gospel of Mark:

1. Defends his actions (baptism, begging, casting out demons, eating with prostitutes and tax collectors) and the actions of his followers against numerous charges of breaking Jewish Laws. He does not acknowledge that his actions could be disturbing to others.
2. Attacks all Jewish authority figures. Priests, Pharisees and Scribes as hypocrites. Scribes “rob from the widows.”
3. Preaches self violence (If your eye offends, tear it out…)
4. Believes in unlimited power based on the will (volunteerism) (whatever you pray for you will receive). You can control God’s actions. If you forgive others, God will forgive you.
5. Apocalypse with wars and natural disasters coming soon before an eternal Kingdom of God
6. Followers and himself will be unbelievably rich in the Kingdom of God
7. Parables generally indicate the Jewish God has a special hatred for the Jewish people.
8. Calls for laying of hands on children (Pedophilia?) and being trusting like children (desire to return to imaginary idealized, conflictless childhood state)
9. Money-changers (bankers) are robbers.
10. Own followers are untrustworthy and his father, God, has ordained him as a sacrifice to save all mankind.

Christianity teaches one to be like Jesus, however the character of Jesus is paranoid and delusional. It teaches a metaphysical world view which is incompatible with a scientific and humanistic social outlook.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

[quotation snipped out]

This post really nails the issue, and is perhaps the only one worthy of the "Biblical Criticism & History" subforum. Usually people here cite scripture to give their arguments foundation as to the message in the gospels (and historical hypotheses that can be verified by comparing actual texts). I'm used to reading stuff in this subforum and reading quotations etc, but not in this thread and I hope people would start doing that so to resolve their disagreements.

My compliments, PhilosopherJay!

You seem to have painted a very interesting picture of the Jesus actually depicted in the gospels. Either it was: based on a historical personage who was emotionally unstable, self-contradictory and unwise; or a compilation of sayings that together make no sense, bringing to light it could have not been a real person or any real person who was sane.

Very different from the picture we (I was brought up into Catholicism) are inculcated with.

Back to the OP, it seems obvious anyone who would want to apply these verbatim to a society will only lead to generalized lunacy. It seems churches like the Anglican confession, for instance, are wise in being non-literalist, and hold that Jesus just wanted us to "be nice" (a lesson that can be perfectly learned without recourse to whatever scripture anyway!).

No Robots · 03-07-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perspicuo

Back to the OP, it seems obvious anyone who would want to apply these verbatim to a society will only lead to generalized lunacy. It seems churches like the Anglican confession, for instance, are wise in being non-literalist, and hold that Jesus just wanted us to "be nice" (a lesson that can be perfectly learned without recourse to whatever scripture anyway!).

I think we owe Jesus the honour of separating his genuinely original and radical ethics from the supernatural nonsense which he inevitably espoused as a man of his time. And perhaps the oxymoronic impact of 'Atheists for Jesus' might be just what is needed to kick start the meme of super niceness in a post-Christian society.--Richard Dawkins / "Atheists for Jesus"

AdamWho · 03-07-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perspicuo

Back to the OP, it seems obvious anyone who would want to apply these verbatim to a society will only lead to generalized lunacy. It seems churches like the Anglican confession, for instance, are wise in being non-literalist, and hold that Jesus just wanted us to "be nice" (a lesson that can be perfectly learned without recourse to whatever scripture anyway!).

I think we owe Jesus the honour of separating his genuinely original and radical ethics from the supernatural nonsense which he inevitably espoused as a man of his time. And perhaps the oxymoronic impact of 'Atheists for Jesus' might be just what is needed to kick start the meme of super niceness in a post-Christian society.--Richard Dawkins / "Atheists for Jesus"

Actually that honor goes to the Buddha 500 years earlier and Jesus' ethics were neither original nor radical. Dawkins is just playing nice and being conciliatory in that quote.

No Robots · 03-07-2011, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWho

Actually that honor goes to the Buddha 500 years earlier and Jesus' ethics were not original nor radical.

Buddha is a myth.

AdamWho · 03-07-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWho

Actually that honor goes to the Buddha 500 years earlier and Jesus' ethics were not original nor radical.

Buddha is a myth.

There is about 1000x more evidence that Buddha existed than Jesus...

1. Actual writings by Buddha
2. Historical person existing by that name
3. Secular historical accounts
4. Eye witness accounts by contemporaries
5. A whole religious movement lead personally by him for a long time.

The person called "the Buddha", lived a long life and did lots of stuff that is pretty well documented. Some even draw al ling from Buddha's teaching to Jesus'

What is a myth is the magical stuff. But that stuff is always tacked on to every religion by the ignorant and gullible.

No Robots · 03-07-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWho

Dawkins is just playing nice and being conciliatory in that quote.

Wouldn't it be great if his fanboys followed his example?

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03-06-2011, 08:53 PM	#31
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	There is indeed an important distinction to be made between the authentic Christianity of Christ and its distortion into Christian religion. This is a war within Christianity. Many anti-Christians take the part of the traditional religionists, and insist that these traditional religious authorities represent the true interpretation. This is similar to the anti-socialists who claim that that the Bolsheviks represent the true interpretation of socialism. And just as democratic socialists must fight both Bolsheviks and anti-socialists, so must the true followers of Christ fight both the Christian religionists and the anti-Christians.

03-06-2011, 09:06 PM	#32
AdamWho Contributor Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 13,389	Most evangelicals are not Christians, they are Paulists.

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