Newton Joseph

What disturbs people’s minds is not the events but the judgment of events
________Epictetus, 500 B.C. Stoic philosopher

New 10.

Faith

Because faith is largely about comfort. A brutal vindictive God who must be obeyed only out of fear is not comforting on any level. The truth is, the Bible does provide evidence of both a wrathful God and a loving one. If I denied that, I would be overlooking biblical scripture.

I can see how a wrathful God could condemn someone to Hell, but I can't see an infinitely loving God doing the same. That is, unless His definition of love is somehow different from ours.

Faith

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.

miata

I agree, and I have learned some valuable lessons here. I have abandoned labels and I was wrong to not have been more sensitive in this area. I appreciate your feed back and I find it very positive. I want to understand as much as possible as I have a son age 12 who is confused by inlaws who want him to be religious. I am more a student here than a radical with profound ideas. I will be the first to admit I do not have the answers other than I am not religious or think we are influenced by any supernatural power.

If I have labeled or insulted it is not my intention and let me say I am sorry if I have been unkind. As far as confusion goes I must keep focused to avoid confusion but life is very abstract to me.

This is the only web that has been tolerant to me so I am trying to listen more and talk less. I have no atheist friends and my theist friends are all praying for my lost soul. I appreciate their concern but I am not convinced.

Again I appreciate your feed back.

Mageth

I would hardly characterize the discussion so far as Faith having been "attacked" for her beliefs (assuming Faith is female). Yes, some of the beliefs Faith has graciously shared have been criticized, but that's, well, pretty much status quo around here, no? One can't reasonably expect a poster to share their beliefs on a discussion board without opening them to fair criticism, can you? And I, for one, have had no intent of attacking Faith for her beliefs. She's posted some beliefs, I've criticized some of them, and she's responded. It's all been quite civil, IMO. A reasonable discussion, which Faith is open to.

If you have particular posts in mind, the proper action is to report the posts to a moderator (using the little "!" in a red triangle at the bottom left of each post, if you don't already know that).

Jinto

Yup. Faith has a lot to do with comfort - and as I'm sure I don't need to tell you, very little to do with objective reality. So anyone who operates on faith would believe what they believe because it is comfortable, and not because it is true. So, given that you know this, my next question is: do you actually believe any of the conclusions you reach on faith?

Mageth

Your candor is quite refreshing, Faith. Hopefully, you don't see anything that's been said on this thread as having been an "attack on your beliefs." As I stated above, my intent is not to attack your beliefs.

And trust me, I can identify with your position. I was there four years ago. But in my case, the cognitive dissonance that resulted from the conflict between the wrathful God and the loving God finally shook down the last vestiges of "faith" (other things contributed, of course). And my identity with your position is in large part what has led me to post the things I have on this thread; I sincerely believe you may benefit from the perspective of someone who's been there. No offense intended; I respect your beliefs, your faith, and the quandary that the Scripture, read at face value, puts you in.

miata

Ahh... someone who gets it. Normally when Christians say "no, I don't believe that a loving God would torture people forever in hell, hell is merely the absence of God, which is what you wanted." they are quick to follow it up with "but the absence of God is still very very horrible and you need to be saved from the consequences of sin and please don't notice that I'm trying to use Pascal's Wager on you." You, on the other hand, have a lot more sense than to make that argument. Congratulations on actually thinking about what you believe.

Jinto, Your above thoughts are right on target. I enjoy your post.
Miata

miata

I don't know; someone help me. Getting a little too what?. I have been on tip toes and egg shells as I want to understand how we differ.
I contacted the moderator to ask what is wrong.

Space Chef, I appreciate your post so i can find out what is wrong. I am new here but I am not sure who is over the top. This is most laid back group I have met on line. I missed something??
Miata

SORRY I did not mean to over post!!!

Faith

Faith is, by definition, a strong conviction in the unproven. My faith is based not only on what is comfortable to me but also on what I firmly believe to be true. That said, I do believe all the conclusions I have reached on faith: God exists. He created and is sovereign over all things. Jesus Christ walked the earth as a human being, was God incarnate, and will return one day. We can know God through His Son. We will all be judged fairly based on our beliefs and either spend eternity with God or apart from Him depending on the choices we make in life.


I have not perceived anyone's comments as an attack on me or my beliefs. All in all, the discussion has been very civil.