TomT

Mythra,

You were never a Christian, for the Bible teaches once-saved-always-saved. When God in His infinite foreknowledge gives eternal life, it is eternal and can never be taken away.

Mythra

Oh, and I've never heard that before either.....

You're just another biblebot.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to TomT: You did not reply to my previous post, so here it is again:

Pascal's Wager is illogical, and it is a fraud. Consider the following post that I made in another thread at this forum:

The point is that God deliberately withholds information from some people who would accept it if they were aware of it. If God clearly revealed himself to everyone, no man could complain that he did not have adequate information, in which case no man would have any excuses. As it is, on judgment day, any man who has never heard the Gospel message who Jesus chooses to send to hell can rightly say that the rules were not clearly disclosed. In addition, on judgment day, any man who has heard the Gospel message and rejected it, and would have accepted it if he had had more information, can rightly say that he was treated unfairly.

Regarding “a person can still be held accountable for his actions even if he does not know how to escape the punishment for those actions”, upon what evidence do you base this assertion, and what standards of judgment will God use? If good morals are the standards, many non-Christians have good morals. For instance, in the first century, a time when most Christians endorsed slavery, some Sophists and Stoics opposed it. In addition, Buddha gave the world a version of the Golden Rule centuries before Christ. The Bible does not teach that good morals can save anyone. Romans 5:12 says “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned”.

If God is not willing that any of as you say “the elect” will perish, if the elect all know the risks if they reject Christianity, if God will accept some people who do not know the risks based upon their morals, doesn’t that mean that he is not willing that some people other than the elect will perish?

Even if everyone knew the risks, it is not possible for decent people to accept the God of the Bible. God makes people blind, deaf, and dumb, reference Exodus 4:11, with no apparent of stated benefits to himself or anyone else. God punishes people for sins that their ancestors committed, with no apparent of stated benefits to himself or anyone else. God injures and kills people with hurricanes, with no apparent of stated benefits to himself or anyone else. During the U.S. Civil War, God stood idly by and allowed Christian to kill Christian, and brother to kill brother, with no apparent of stated benefits to himself or anyone else. James says that if a man refuses to feed hungry people that he is vain, and that his faith is dead. During the Irish Potato Famine alone, one million people die of starvation because God refused to provide them with food, with no apparent of stated benefits to himself or anyone else. Most of those people were Christians. If feeding hungry people is a worthy goal, it is a worthy goal for mankind and for God.

If you believed that God told lies, you would not be able to love him, and yet you ask people to accept a God who has committed numerous atrocities against humanity that are much worse than lying is. I have used this argument many times at this forum, and at the EofG forum, but you have always conveniently refused to reply to it.

Paul says that it is not surprising that Satan masquerades as an angel of light, but there is no credible evidence that Paul could have known whether or not Satan masquerades an angel of light, or whether or not God masquerades an angel of light. The odds are no better than even that God is who the Bible says he is. Jesus said in order for a man to become saved, he must love God with all of his heart, soul, and mind. Logically, a commitment like that is not possible based upon no better than even odds.

You said that you have evidence that today, all tangible benefits are not distributed entirely at random according to the laws of physics. Where is your evidence?

End of quotes

It appears to me that you are one of whom I call "young lions", Christians who are less than 25 years of age, who are naive, who typically make uncorrobrated assertions, and who do not have much debate experience. I might be wrong, but it appears to me that that is the case.

TomT

God is not going to make you a robot, for that is coercion, not love. So if you want to perish to be eternally separated from God that is your choice. Don't blame God. Lots of people want to go where Satan is going.

TomT

Christians are of all ages. God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10.34).

TomT

Buddha was not saved for if he was presented the Word of God He would have rejected it, because he was a reincarnator which does not deal with sins righteously.

TomT

This is how Christ deals with sins.

First you must enter into the new creation to be forgiven for all your sins. You are still in the flesh so as long as you are in the flesh that has died on the cross with Christ and rendered powerless, if not accomplished to the fulness it can still rear its ugly head.

That is why there is no sin only when there is the resurrected spiritual physical body.

God also accounts for sins, self and works unto rewards. If you want to remain a carnal Christian you will lose the rerwards and go to a place the Bible calls outer darkness, though, unlike hell, it has no fire or furnace about it.

Those who receive the reward in various measures will return with Christ (Jude 14,15 - brother of Christ), to reign over the nations in the 1000 year reward period, over the earth. It will be a splendid time with Christ in Person in Jerusalem.

Weltall

And torturing someone for eternity because they didn't agree with you or kiss your ass enough somehow is? Now if you've got some time, I made a few points that I'd like responses to. Go back to my post and respond to the non-Buddhism related stuff. If you've got time to respond to that you've got time to look at the rest.

TomT

God describes hell as gruesome as he can without going overboard because he loves you and doesn't want you to go there. He has done everything He can do within the confines of His righteousness and holiness to convince you not to go there, so if you still want to go to hell, you truly belong there. The essence of hell is eternal consciousness in being eternally separated from God forever and away from us. You will so be forgotten we will never even shed a tear for you ever again for you will be where you truly belong.

Weltall

Ah, this must be that Christian Love I've heard so much about... An eternity with no more Christ-borg you say? I can hardly wait. I hear Lucifer throws some great parties and the company is certain to be more interesting. Who shall I talk to first, Darwin or Sagan? Now, I notice that you still haven't made any substantive response to my earlier points. If you're wearing clothing made out of more than one material, you're breaking God's Laws (tm). Your presumption of the existence of sin in order to prove your point is circular logic. Your claims of eyewitnesses are as empty as the promises of your savior. Come on, get responding!