Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rhutchin · 01-06-2009, 12:20 PM

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Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

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Originally Posted by rhutchin

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Originally Posted by aa5874

But, this is blatant fiction. You cannot show that any person who have died and have been documented to have died, still actually live and do so after shedding their bag of bones.

Well, do you have proof that such is not the case? The Bible tells us that this is the case. On what basis do you say otherwise?

Where has the validity of what the Bible says been demonstrated or corroborated? Who decided which books were Bible-worthy and which ones weren't?

Does it matter? The Bible is what it is and says what it says. Nothing more and nothing less.

rhutchin · 01-06-2009, 12:25 PM

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Originally Posted by aa5874

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Originally Posted by rhutchin

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Originally Posted by aa5874

But, this is blatant fiction. You cannot show that any person who have died and have been documented to have died, still actually live and do so after shedding their bag of bones.

Well, do you have proof that such is not the case? The Bible tells us that this is the case. On what basis do you say otherwise?

Well, my father died and it has been documented. My mother-in law died and it was documented. You tell me where they are living right now.

I know where their bodies were left, I expect them to be there.

You tell where I can see them alive.

Your propagate false information.

So did they die with the death of the body or did they just shed the body and move on? Being free from the encumbrances of this life, do they now desire to enter heaven and not to excluded from the good things that God is able to provide?

rhutchin · 01-06-2009, 12:28 PM

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Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

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Originally Posted by dog-on

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Originally Posted by rhutchin

Because "eternal death" refers to that which the person experiences after death. Eternal life is that life which a person experiences in heaven and eternal death that life which a person experiences outside heaven.

So you redefine death to mean something other than death?

Why not use another word? Like eternal damnation...

It seems as though "death" actually doesn't exist in the Christian paradigm. Either you live forever in heaven, or you live forever in hell. You never actually "die" - as in at the very least a cessation of all consciousness.

An A+ for you.

rhutchin · 01-06-2009, 12:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Deus Ex

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Originally Posted by rhutchin

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Originally Posted by aa5874

But, this is blatant fiction. You cannot show that any person who have died and have been documented to have died, still actually live and do so after shedding their bag of bones.

Well, do you have proof that such is not the case? The Bible tells us that this is the case. On what basis do you say otherwise?

Life after death cannot be proven empirically. It is upon the theist to provide evidence.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die,... (Heb 9:27) and then the obvious will be evident.

rhutchin · 01-06-2009, 12:34 PM

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Originally Posted by dog-on

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Originally Posted by rhutchin

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Originally Posted by dog-on

How does one "still live" if one has "eternal death"?

Because "eternal death" refers to that which the person experiences after death. Eternal life is that life which a person experiences in heaven and eternal death that life which a person experiences outside heaven.

So you redefine death to mean something other than death?

Why not use another word? Like eternal damnation...

OK. That is one possible outcome.

rhutchin · 01-06-2009, 12:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Deus Ex

The Bible may very well be true; so might the Quran, or the Hindu Vedas. I am reserving judgment.

The plausibility of any of them being correct is extremely low by my reckoning.

You only have to worry about the one that is correct.

bacht · 01-06-2009, 01:52 PM

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Originally Posted by rhutchin

And if man could discover a natural mechanism to create the universe and then create life, we might be able to discount a supernatural influence. Given that the universe and life require supernatural origins, the supernatural cannot be discounted.

I appreciate your honesty but I can't agree with this. Supernaturalism is an admission of ignorance and possibly infantilism imho.

Anyway discussions about creation belong in another thread, maybe another sub-forum.

Amaleq13 · 01-06-2009, 02:00 PM

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Originally Posted by rhutchin

And if man could discover a natural mechanism to create the universe and then create life, we might be able to discount a supernatural influence.

You can never discount a magical notion like that because there is always room for it(ie God of the gaps). That is a big part of the reason why it has survived so long despite the lack of evidence to support it.

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Given that the universe and life require supernatural origins, the supernatural cannot be discounted.

This is certainly not a "given" and I suspect you could not produce a logical proof establishing it as such.

aa5874 · 01-06-2009, 02:12 PM

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Originally Posted by rhutchin

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Well, my father died and it has been documented. My mother-in law died and it was documented. You tell me where they are living right now.

I know where their bodies were left, I expect them to be there.

You tell where I can see them alive.

Your propagate false information.

So did they die with the death of the body or did they just shed the body and move on? Being free from the encumbrances of this life, do they now desire to enter heaven and not to excluded from the good things that God is able to provide?

Can you please tell where my father and mother-in-law live, right now.

I saw them dead, they have been documented as having died, and I know where they were buried.

Where are they living? You say they are not dead, their death certificates are useless then.

You propagate nonsense. Do you have a death certificate already in your name? Is this your second life?

rhutchin · 01-06-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Well, my father died and it has been documented. My mother-in law died and it was documented. You tell me where they are living right now.

I know where their bodies were left, I expect them to be there.

You tell where I can see them alive.

Your propagate false information.

So did they die with the death of the body or did they just shed the body and move on? Being free from the encumbrances of this life, do they now desire to enter heaven and not to excluded from the good things that God is able to provide?

Can you please tell where my father and mother-in-law live, right now.

I saw them dead, they have been documented as having died, and I know where they were buried.

Where are they living? You say they are not dead, their death certificates are useless then.

Certainly, you saw their dead bodies. Does that mean that they ceased to live once their bodies died off?

Death certificates allow you to cash in on your inheritance.

You know better where they are now. If they trusted in Christ, they are with Him. If not, they await judgment.

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