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Reload this Page Sources of the Jesus Tradition: Separating History from Myth
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:36 AM   #11
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RJ Hoffman replies with some explanations of the "untidiness" of the production
So much for scholarly discourse.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:13 AM   #12
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As for James Tabor and others, their lectures were not available because they formed part of work already committed to publishers. They were gracious enough to share their ideas with the group–as were many others at UC Davis in 2007. I do not think this is unusual, but I recognize that as a full-time self-promotionalist Carrier does not travel an orthodox conference circuit where this protocol would be familiar to him.
That's understandable.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:49 AM   #13
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Yikes indeed. I must admit that I trust Richard's judgement.
So far so good. Here is a good yardstick:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnaldo Momigliano

"But I have good reason to distrust any historian who has nothing new to say or who produces novelties, either in facts or in interpretations, which I discover to be unreliable. Historians are supposed to be discoverers of truths. No doubt they must turn their research into some sort of story before being called historians. But their stories must be true stories. [...] History is no epic, history is no novel, history is no propaganda because in these literary genres control of the evidence is optional, not compulsory. "

~ Arnaldo Momigliano, The rhetoric of history, Comparative Criticism, p. 260
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Can one dream that Carrier would create a second, improved edition?
I think the challenge ahead of Carrier is the application of his Bayesian approach to ancient history and the origins of the new testament and the historicity of Jesus.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:52 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Toto View Post
RJ Hoffman replies with some explanations of the "untidiness" of the production
So much for scholarly discourse.
Quote:
But to recap: The book remains untidy, like a lot of anthologies that begin as conferences and papers. I wish it could have been tidier. I am guessing, however, that the sore thumb sticking out of the collection in such a way that its author must now wonder what he was doing is an essay entitled “Bayes Theorem for Beginners.” I certainly wonder what it’s doing there.

It's par for the course.
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Yikes indeed. I must admit that I trust Richard's judgement.
So far so good. Here is a good yardstick:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnaldo Momigliano

"But I have good reason to distrust any historian who has nothing new to say or who produces novelties, either in facts or in interpretations, which I discover to be unreliable. Historians are supposed to be discoverers of truths. No doubt they must turn their research into some sort of story before being called historians. But their stories must be true stories. [...] History is no epic, history is no novel, history is no propaganda because in these literary genres control of the evidence is optional, not compulsory. "

~ Arnaldo Momigliano, The rhetoric of history, Comparative Criticism, p. 260
Quote:
Can one dream that Carrier would create a second, improved edition?
I think the challenge ahead of Carrier is the application of his Bayesian approach to ancient history and the origins of the new testament and the historicity of Jesus.
I agree on that.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:32 PM   #16
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Richard Carrier has responded, in his comments, to Hoffmann's blog post....

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2...45096755396274
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:02 AM   #17
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As for James Tabor and others, their lectures were not available because they formed part of work already committed to publishers. They were gracious enough to share their ideas with the group–as were many others at UC Davis in 2007. I do not think this is unusual, but I recognize that as a full-time self-promotionalist Carrier does not travel an orthodox conference circuit where this protocol would be familiar to him.
That's understandable.

They had already been *committed* to publishers in 2007?

So where are they?

According to the press release 'Papers delivered at the conference will be published under the title "Sources of the Jesus Tradition: An Inquiry," by Prometheus Books in 2009. '

Well, some papers anyway.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:35 AM   #18
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Richard Carrier has responded, in his comments, to Hoffmann's blog post....

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2...45096755396274
Ah, the refined art of academic throat slitting and knife twisting! — Neil Godfrey
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:40 AM   #19
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As for James Tabor and others, their lectures were not available because they formed part of work already committed to publishers. They were gracious enough to share their ideas with the group–as were many others at UC Davis in 2007. I do not think this is unusual, but I recognize that as a full-time self-promotionalist Carrier does not travel an orthodox conference circuit where this protocol would be familiar to him.
That's understandable.

They had already been *committed* to publishers in 2007?

So where are they?

According to the press release 'Papers delivered at the conference will be published under the title "Sources of the Jesus Tradition: An Inquiry," by Prometheus Books in 2009. '

Well, some papers anyway.
Maybe the market for HJ books is a bit thin.
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:02 AM   #20
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Richard Carrier has responded, in his comments, to Hoffmann's blog post....

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2...45096755396274
Ah, the refined art of academic throat slitting and knife twisting! — Neil Godfrey


Here is the link to Neil's blog post.

http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/06/...riers-reviews/
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