repoman

I am asking this because while an atheist I can understand how most of the rest of the New Testament can be taken as sacred text by theists. But the book of Revelations is so disturbing and incoherent, I can't see why more xtian don't discount it outright.

Dean Anderson

I'm an atheist and I believe in Revelation.

It definitely exists - I can point it out to you in the back of a Bible if you want.

On a more serious note, if you read the book it is describing someone's vision.

Most Christians seem to believe that it was a truly inspired vision - but that that doesn't necessarily mean that the things depicted in it will actually happen. The vision is seen as metaphor or parable - designed to be instructive (if somewhat hard to glean meaning out of) rather than designed to be a "preview" of actual future events.

Of course, this is just what most Christians that I have encountered believe. If you go somewhere like Rapture Ready (a Christian forum specifically for Christians who believe that the events in Revelation are both real and about to happen any day now), then you will get a different Christian viewpoint.

I don't know if that kind of apocalyptic Christian is particularly common in America, but they are certainly rare over here in Europe.

KenLynch

There are many Christians who believe it, but not all agree on the interpretation. For the first part it is seven letters to the main churches in the area, pretty straight forward - but then it gets all mystical. It does have a lot of tie-ins to Daniels revelation.

Most conservative and charismatic Christians believe in a literal end time with rapture and beast etc. whereas there are some that believe that most of the events have already taken place and that it was a coded warning to Christians about the Roman Empire and that danger was imminent.

I find a lot of Christians believe the interpretation sanctioned by their particular church, the churches I went to as a Christian believed in the beast and rapture a la Tim LaHey's "Left Behind" novels. My friends lapped that shit up and believed it would happen without question.

KenLynch

What do you mean? I spent 15 years as a Christian and pretty much most of the Christians I met where apocalyptic, just go to your nearest Baptist or Charismatic church and you'll meet loads.

Dean Anderson

Agreed.

But the vast majority of British Christians are not Baptist or Charismatic. They are Anglican or Catholic (or that peculiarly British breed of non-denominational apathetic go-to-church-at-christmas-and-forget-about-it-the-rest-of-the-year Christians). None of these are apocalyptic in outlook.

I said that apocalyptic Christians were rare in the UK, not non-existant. I went to a Charismatic church myself when I was a Christian - so I know they exist in the UK.

seebs

I think it is very likely that, as predicted, the Temple will be destroyed by Rome by the year 100AD or so. Possibly a little sooner.

johntheapostate

Here is a post I wrote for another thread which shows just how unreliable the author of the book of Revelations is.


I had been studying in the Old Testament for several weeks and I felt I needed a break in the routine. On the spur of the moment I flipped to the last book in the Bible. I had read through most of Revelations (And it appeared to me as if written by someone who had lost touch with reality) when on the last page near the end I came across a passage that I instantly associated with the book of Daniel ( which I believe it had been designed to do)

Revelations 22:10-11 “ Then he said to me, do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong, let him who is vile continue to be vile, let him who does right continue to do right, and let him who is holy continue to be holy�?

On the face of it these passages seem to indicate that the end is so immanent that any further attempts at spreading the gospel should be halted and preparation made for ones personal meeting with Jesus. And directly following these passages we have the text declaring in Jesus’s own words the imminence of his return.

Revelations 22:7 " Behold I am coming soon! Blessed is he that keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."

But if one is to combine these passages with the passages from the book of Daniel which they seem deliberately designed to do, Then the original readers of this book would have been completely justified in expecting Jesus within a very short time period.

Daniel 12:2-4 “But at that time your people, everyone whose name is written in the Book will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

But you Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end�?

That is the verse that anyone familiar with the book of Daniel would instantly have associated to the verse in Revelations “ Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book because the end is near�?

If the message had not been clear enough before, the association with the verse in Daniel would surely have indicated to the readers of Revelation that they were to understand that the author intended for them to believe that the second coming was more than immanent it was almost immediate.

If the author of Revelation was so flawed in his interpretation of something as crucial as the second coming how can anyone be sure of any prophecy contained in the book.

funinspace

Martin Luther did not believe that it belonged in the canon as well.

A good portion of modern Liberal Xians put little stock in this book, but then they also tend to put little thought into much of any theology that I can tell.

Boomeister

felicitouslut

As a pre-teen cATHOLIC , I found ridiculous SHIT to be ridiculous SHIT. In 8th grade I declined to participate in getting stars thru community service and thereby boeing out of Confirmation. My 'rents continued to send me for indoctrination but to no avail. BS is BS