Toto

[staffwarn]Let's not turn this into a barroom brawl, OK?[/staffwarn]

No Robots

The point is that Christ didn't recant. In fact, like Socrates, he just dug himself in deeper when confronted by the authorities. Both of these geniuses are creative suicides, bringing their doom upon themselves, turning even their owns deaths into a weapon against their enemies.

Derec

The "cleansing of the Temple" perhaps?

But even if Jesus is not portrayed as macho like bar Kochba et al, it is silly to use that as evidence that he was "androgyne".

But obviosuly once on Earth he would have human gender and from even cursory reading of the gospel he is a man.

Psalm 22 as well. That does not change the fact that Jesus, as portrayed in the gospels, is a man.

bacht

Assuming the Passion story is true (which I don't) it appears that Jesus deliberately invited negative attention by his disturbance in the temple. According to Acts 6 Stephen

"never ceases to speak words against this holy place and the law; for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place, and will change the customs which Moses delivered to us."

Apparently the Roman authorities convicted JC for sedition (royal pretender). I don't know how creative this was considering that hundreds of Jews died for similar crimes in the 1st C. If Jesus was divine then it was all just a trick anyway. There's no indication that his crucifixion had any impact on his contemporaries. If Stephen's testimony is true then most Jews would've cheered Jesus' death.

Socrates was an old man already, and never claimed any official leadership role in Athens (apart from his military service, which may have been the real reason for his prosecution). After the Peloponesian war Athens was ruled by a conservative oligarchy which replaced the democracy under which S flourished. He was "yesterday's man", maybe a scapegoat.

bacht

I'm surprised anyone thinks this a controversial idea. I don't really care either way, I left my faith in Christianity behind many years ago, and I'm skeptical there was anyone behind the gospel stories. But Jesus is clearly an anti-hero, and in those days that would've made him less "manly", maybe more like Attis and his castrati priests. Paul mentions that there is neither male nor female in Christ, don't know if that squares with the gospels but there's no sense of a virile "man's man" in the background (can anyone picture Jesus on a hunting trip, or drinking his buddies under the table?)

No Robots

Sure. Everybody passed out in Gethsemane except him, and he was known to his enemies as a drinker.

eta: Oh, yeah, and he did go on fishing trips with his buddies. In fact, he taught them how to go after the most dangerous catch.

dog-on

Women had roles of authority within the Marcionite churches.