whichphilosophy

The purpose is not for me to try and convert people or anything so any detailed points a person may discuss in private, but there's not a lot.

Mind you the threads I noticed about God and Santa Claus seem to have lasted a long time so I guess they're more popular but I shall not debate as to whether he's in heaven.

Regards,

Vajradhara

Namaste pachomius,

thank you for the post.

we've had this discussion before, i seem to recall.

please provide critism of the buddhist suttas that defies rationality. if you could cite your sources it would be appreciated.

indeed... i'm sure that you have... however, since when does religion have to fit your definition?

that's been the crux of our discussion, iirc. i am not clear why things must comport with your understanding to be valid?

Vajradhara

Namaste whichphilosophy,

would you please address the first query in my post? i.e.

is LRH an Operating Theatan, why or why not?

once we establish this, my next question will be how many theatans inhabit a human body at one time?

eventually, we'll get to the area where i ask where all these theatans were imprisoned and how that happened.

but.. let's start with first things first..

pachomius2000

Vajradhara, I really love you! But sometimes you do get somewhat miffed with my kind of posts.

Do I have any excerpt from any Buddhist authoritative text that I might demonstrate to be open to rational criticism?

I think you got me there, Vajradhara. But then that kind of a demand is what I would consider the tsunami demand: asking me to search for something in the tsunami that might prove to people that the tsunami is really something catastrophically calamitous.

I think it's the large picture. But I agree with you, that when we do come down to every minutia of any system, even of the empirical socalled sciences, we are very often dumbfounded.

Anyway, I hope you will excuse me for not citing any specific excerpt from the Buddhist canon to show that it cannot withstand the test of rational criticism.


On another front, Richard Gere is also into Buddhism, Travolta is a Scientologist like Whichphilosophy here -- and I imagine Scientologists are all Thetans or is it only Hubbard, and Bush is a born again fundamentalist Christian (no condom against AIDS, no same sex marriage, and no booze, war against 'terrorism', yes, of course ).

Now, Hubbard was a science fiction writer like Asimov(?) It is really amazing and a wonder about the kinds of people humans are. What shall I say, it takes all kinds.

Tell me though, you are enthusiastic about Buddhism, aren't you? And the phenomenon of enthusiasm is also one very rich field to study about in psychology. Do you have any write-up about Buddhistic account of the human phenomenon called enthusiasm?

I really love you, Vajradhara. Maybe I should really go into Buddhism and be one myself, if just to be like you. No, no flattery intended.

But I don'think I can give up meat dishes. I used to quarrel with my wife about healthy diets: nothing fried, everything cooked roasted or boiled or steamed, only at most one meat dish a week. Then as usual with my kind of personality, I gave up. NOw I just let her do the cuisine and the nutrition and the balanced diet in the home and family. Better for peace all around, even though I might live not as long as I thought I would by a kind of very healthy diet.

Glad to hear from you! And I am glad to meet also a Thetan here, Whichphilosophy. He has all kinds of reasons and texts also to prop up his enthusiasm with Scientology.

Pachomius2000

whichphilosophy

I think that at the end of the day a person makes their own choice. There are several paths I suppose. I chose this path some years ago. Then stopped for a number of years. Recently I have been seeing how I can do more courses.There are a load I have ready to do, but it's a question of going back to Europe or US some time soon for brief periods of time.

As a matter of interest, steamed food is exceptionally healthy but can be time consuming. (There's no steamer in the microwave).

A friend of mine (not a Scn) years ago had one malfunction kidney and the other was about to give up. He was only in his early 20s.
His choice was a kidney transplant or a kidney machine for the rest of his life.
He went to see a Chinese Doctor.
The basic diet was 100% steamed everything with just some herb treatments.

This got me interested in Traditional Chinese Medicine.

There again if one does not have a quality of life a great diet will not be the full answer to health.

Well now he is an executive of a major corporation, qualified barrister,and seveal children. In fact though in his late 40s he's like a young person.

Anyway I drifted off slightly. What we are seeing here is something that worked even, if not officially recognised.

Science does not disprove the existence of ourselves as spirital entities because it deals with observable phenomena in accordance with the parameters of the research and can only come up with theories.

I don't think science intends to disprove the existence of a soul whether an individual or a collective conciousness or universal self. This is because one is not an atheist by virtue of being a scientist.

It would be a very boring world if we all believed in the same things and agreed with each other.

As for propping up enthusiasm for Scientology did that replace my propping up of the bars. I don't think so. The worth of a subject is to the degree it works for the individual and haw they can make a favourable impact on the environment and others.

Cubeless Academian

Yeah, like you don't already know the answers to those questions. Thanks to the Internet, if a person only knows one thing about Scientology it's probably the Xenu story.

whichphilosophy

Don't thank the internet. Thank those who stole the documents and tried to make money selling their own version. When that backfired these documents dumped all over the place. A few documents out of 40 million words is only a small part of the overall subject.

The internet is like one dump full of garbage mixed with good stuff. To study this we have to dig our snouts in the pile and forage out a few truffles here and there amongst the debris.

Read about science and it si 10 years out of date, so more digging is required.

Of course the websites referring to Xenu tend to have discredited themselves when I have shown people their attacks on individuals like the Article "Advice for Scientology Kids." (Of course mailing it to someone is another matter as it would be a poison pen letter).Also the writer gets his definitions back to front about the subject. In fact that article reflected more about the author's mental state then it did of the intended targets. Plus some other articles many of which made no sense.

One can distort situation beyond recognition.

As for children Mine (unlike a retard like myself) are pretty bright (sitting in classes with older pupils), hence contradicts the essence of the article. Also the writer gets his definitions back to front about the subject adn his historivla points wrong. Plus some other articles which make so sense.

If someone only knows the contents of the internet "anti-Sites alone they know nothing.

I would say that we are imprisoned within ourselves to a certain degree and influenced by the herd movements of others. To the degree that we free ourselves then to that degree we can excercise our own free will over the environment Matter Energy Space and Time, which is the goal of the great early religions.

Can we get this from Psychiatry? Well the modern trend started when Stalin paid Pavlov (actually a vet) to do experiements on mind control. He concluded that if one could get a dog to slaver at command, then one could do so with a human. Thus followed a history of brutal treatments and drugging in the name of freedom.

Psychology is at a dead end whose work is little mroe than stimulus response.

Science has never disproved the concept of a spiritual being, but just stated that within its parameters of observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. That's all. They can only rightly say within the limits of what they observe say they cannot see. One cannot disprove a belief with a best theory.

Studies of the brain in this matter are contradictory and confusing.

Are we spiritual or part of one uniform spirit or conciousness. Surprisingly many people know this but do not trust their own judgement. It can be difficult to discover what one already knows but the answer is within. Should one follow the herd for mutual gratification on what the leader of the packs tell them or follow what one knows regardless.

Chris Weimer

take it from personal experience, scientology is EVIL. I even despise L Ron Hubbard, that bastard told on people during the blacklisting 50's. They try to "purify" you of "toxins" which of course don't exist. Stay away from cults. Think for yourself! Oh, there's a new idea...

whichphilosophy

The toxins do exist because the effects of the Purification Rundown works. I did this and so did others. Not only that some of the members are GPs, and they have done this. So it very hard for me to understand that what I experienced I did not.

So how long were you involved because up there is something generalised. Did you leave or were you asked to and what did you do in the subject?

I do however agree it is a new idea to think for oneself.

Chris Weimer

Fortunately, I myself wasn't involved in Scientology, but a brother in law very close to the family was. I read all the magazines and then he told me about the "treatment" and then people start dieing in those saunas. Listen, if your idea of purgation is a sauna, hell, every time I go to the gym/pool I go there. I don't feel changed. Oh, and where is the scientific proof of these toxins. Or do you just associate the name to lure in saps and suckers. Now, I've had my fair deal of cults, born into the Children of God cult, so it is VERY easy to recognise a cult when I see one. Brainwashing...