Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Lucretius · 08-10-2007, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

I hear a lot of erroneous criticism of the Bible ... "it's a Bronze Age myth ... it's full of errors ... it's totally implausible ..." ... etc. etc.

But I am curious about something ... how many of you have actually READ the Bible?

The whole thing? If not the whole thing, please specify what parts you have read.

I am particularly interested in hearing from my "fans" who have followed me for the past year or so, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

Ok then Dave you have stated some posts back that you have read the Bible in full ,however I do not see where you say exactly which version you have read.
This is actually important as IF you have ,as I suspect, only ever read the KJV then by definition you have rejected some of the books in the Catholic Bible as " a Bronze Age myth ... it's full of errors ... it's totally implausible ".
Take the case of the Book of Judith which is in every copy of the Catholic Bible but has been rejected in the Protestant version
EVEN the Catholic Church has problems with this book as can be seen from this link to the Catholic Encyclopedia BUT in spite of (my highlights )

Quote:

historical and geographical statements in the book, as we now have it, are difficult to understand: thus

Nabuchodonosor was apparently never King of Nineveh, for he came to the throne in 605, whereas Nineveh was destroyed certainly not later than 606, and after that the Assyrians ceased to exist as a people;
the allusion in i, 6, to Erioch, King of the Elicians, is suspicious; we are reminded of the Arioch of Gen., xiv, i. The Septuagint makes him King of the Elumaens, presumably the Elamites,
the character of Nabuchodonosor is hardly that portrayed for us on the monuments: in the India House Inscription, for example, his sentiments are remarkable for the modesty of their tone. On the other hand, we must remember that, as Sayce says, the "Assyrian kings were most brazen-faces liars on their monuments";
the name Vagao, or the Septuagint Bagoas, for the eunuch of Holofernes is suggestive of the Bagoses, who, according to Josephus (Antiquities, XI, vii, 1), polluted the temple and to whom apparently we have a reference in the recently discovered papyri from Assuan;
the mixture of Babylonian, Greek, and Persian names in the book should be noted;
the genealogy of Judith as given in the Vulgate is a medley: that given in the three principal Greek codices is perhaps better but varies in every one.
Still it is an historical genealogy, though ill-conserved;
a geographical puzzle is presented by the Vulgate of ii, 12-16; the Septuagint is much superior, and it should be noted that throughout this version, especially in Codex B, we have the most interesting details furnished us (cf. particularly i, 9; ii, 13, 28-9). The Septuagint also gives us information about Achior which is wanting in the Vulgate; it is apparently hinted in vi, 2, 5, that he was an Ephraimite and a mercenary hired by Moad;
Bethulia itself is a mystery: according to the Septuagint it was large, had streets and towers (vii, 22, 32), and withstood a long siege at the hands of a vast army. Its position, too, is stated with minuteness; it stood on the edge of the Plain of Esdrelon and guarded the pass to Jerusalem; yet no trace of the existence of such a place is to be found (unless we accept the theory of Conder, "Handbook", 5th ed., p. 239);
the names, Judith (Jewess), Achior (brother of light), and Bethulia (?Bethel, i.e. ?Jerusalem, or perhaps from the Hebrew meaning "virgin" -- in the shorter Hebrew version Judith is called not "the widow" but "the virgin", i.e. Bethulia), sound rather like symbolic names than those of historical places or persons;
in Judith's speech to Holofernes there is (xi, 12, 15) some apparent confusion between Bethulia and Jerusalem;
while the events are referred to the time of Nabuchodonosor, and therefore to the close of the Hebrew monarchy, we seem to have in v, 22, and viii, 18-19, an allusion to the time subsequent to the Restoration;
there is no king in Palestine (iv, 5), but only a high priest, Joachim or Eliachim; and in iv, 8; xi, 14; xv, 8 (Sept.), the Sanhedrin is apparently mentioned;
the book has a Persian and even a Greek colouring, as is evidenced by the recurrence of such names as Bagoas and Holofernes.

it is still accepted as the "Gospel Truth" by the Catholic Church

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08554a.htm

How's that for innerant & divinley inspired ?
OR maybe its just " a Bronze Age myth ... it's full of errors ... it's totally implausible ".

08-10-2007, 05:49 AM

I'd be surprised if Dave has even heard of the Apocrypha.
There's a ripper quote from Esdras that I like throwing around occasionally.

Derec · 08-10-2007, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katastrophikus

"They" assume that the atheists they meet are that way because of too little biblical exposure, when the revers is actually true.

You can see that very well with Chick tracts. "You mean there is this guy named Jesus who died for my sins. I never heard of that, I better repent now".

Lucretius · 08-10-2007, 05:59 AM

I think the Book of Judith is fast becoming my favourite book of the Bible not only for the fact that it is a good story but the fact that the Catholic Church seems to be saying

"IT IS "history " IF you change the names of all the people, IF you change all the place names ,IF you change the geography and IF you change the dates then it is "really historical " honest !!"

This bit is good too (from the source linked to before )

Quote:

St. Jerome, while rejecting in theory those books which he did not find in his Hebrew manuscript, yet consented to translate Judith because "the Synod of Nicaea is said to have accounted it as Sacred Scripture" (Praef. in Lib.).
It is true that no such declaration is to be found in the Canons of Nicaea,

So St Jerome appears to have just decided to put it in anyway

Roger Pearse · 08-10-2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

I stayed in a country pub recently. There was a bloody Gideon bible in the room. I felt much better after putting it outside. Couldn't have slept properly otherwise.

I'll bet.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Faid · 08-10-2007, 08:40 AM

have you read the Bible cover to cover, Roger?

blastula · 08-10-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

I'm not criticizing a book. I'm criticizing a theory ... And I have studied ToE extensively.

Dunning-Kruger effect

Constant Mews · 08-10-2007, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

I'm not criticizing a book. I'm criticizing a theory ... And I have studied ToE extensively.

Dunning-Kruger effect

An excellent study. And quite applicable.

Worldtraveller · 08-10-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant Mews

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

Dunning-Kruger effect

An excellent study. And quite applicable.

heh, yeah. I have the pdf saved, and a printed copy on my desk at all times.

I've handed it to more than one engineer here who started spouting off on something he knew nothing about....

I need to find a similar study that shows people with some specialized knowledge in one field assume they know a lot about any field, by erroneous extrapolation.

Cheers,
Lane

spamandham · 08-10-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Also, many of those Bibles were freebies, courtesy of Gideons and others.

On occasion, while travelling, I open a Gideon's Bible and write "Fiction" at the top and bottom of the first page.

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08-10-2007, 05:49 AM	#342
mung bean Guest Posts: n/a	I'd be surprised if Dave has even heard of the Apocrypha. There's a ripper quote from Esdras that I like throwing around occasionally.

08-10-2007, 08:40 AM	#346
Faid Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 1,057	have you read the Bible cover to cover, Roger?

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