Freethought & Rationalism Archive

deadman_932 · 07-08-2007, 07:34 PM

so...because you haven't seen evidence of mutation-driven evo...your alternative is to select Lamarckism that has no evidence. Wise, very wise.

ck1 · 07-08-2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah

You eat it. You do something or go someplace you weren't doing/at previously to get the food. Using your body in a different way creates actual changes that i think in a Lamarkist view can be passed down genetically to the offspring. I also think Sunlight has a lot to do with it and how much you get. When An animal leaves the shade or goes into the shade I think has an effect genetically pretty quick. Or say if it goes from eating plants to eating other animals.

Go someplace cold and your fur coat thickens go someplace warm and it thins go in the water you lose it all together.

I think errors happen I just don't think they drive evolution.

Elijah, Sorry, but there is no substance in what you said. And certainly no indication of a mechanism. Have you ever taken a basic course in biology or genetics? Or have you read any books or popular science magazine articles on evolution or genetics? If you are interested enough to come here to outline your ideas, I hope you are interested enough to put some effort into trying to understand what mainstream science has learned about genetics, mutation and the mechanisms that drive evolution.

Elijah · 07-08-2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ck1

Elijah, Sorry, but there is no substance in what you said. And certainly no indication of a mechanism. Crap

What kind of "mechanism" are you looking for and for what. There is a disagreement in the room over here on what you are talking about.

show_no_mercy · 07-08-2007, 08:01 PM

Hey Elijah,

Where did you earn your PhD in biology from? What was the topic of the thesis you defended?

07-08-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah

Quote:

Originally Posted by ck1

Elijah, Sorry, but there is no substance in what you said. And certainly no indication of a mechanism. Crap

What kind of "mechanism" are you looking for and for what. There is a disagreement in the room over here on what you are talking about.

Elijah, at the risk of incurring your displeasure I am going to give you a bit more advice.
Don't edit CK1's posts to make them say "crap". She's a highly qualified and experienced biologist who specialises in genetics.
She's also polite and informative.

You accused Deadman of not knowing you. Bear in mind that you do not know the people you are talking to.

ck1 · 07-08-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah

Quote:

Originally Posted by ck1

Elijah, Sorry, but there is no substance in what you said. And certainly no indication of a mechanism. Crap

What kind of "mechanism" are you looking for and for what. There is a disagreement in the room over here on what you are talking about.

Why is it "crap" to spend some time learning about the subject you are criticizing? Or did I misunderstand?

As for mechanism - how does sunlight produce a specific, adaptive mutation?

Elijah · 07-08-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ck1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah

What kind of "mechanism" are you looking for and for what. There is a disagreement in the room over here on what you are talking about.

Why is it "crap" to spend some time learning about the subject you are criticizing? Or did I misunderstand?

As for mechanism - how does sunlight produce a specific, adaptive mutation?

It's just being rude... that is why it is crap. Go to school, go read a book... blah blah blah crap.

Heat and uv rays.

deadman_932 · 07-08-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Don't edit CK1's posts to make them say "crap". She's a highly qualified and experienced biologist who specialises in genetics.
She's also polite and informative.

Certainly nicer than me.
I'm curious if Elijah is in Kansas City (KU?), where "Nimi" is from...they both seem to have signed on as users about the same time..two years ago. Weeks apart, really. Maybe Elijah is like a drama student or world dance or something. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

Edit: heat causes mutation? damn. Alert the Nobel committee.

deadman_932 · 07-08-2007, 08:27 PM

I'm starting to feel sorry for all those desert chuckwallas and spiny lizards and such. Mutating at such an enormous rate must be tiring.

TomboyMom · 07-08-2007, 08:31 PM

[QUOTE=Elijah;4598755]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomboyMom

If Lamarckism is right, and all of the world's biologists are wrong, why do you think they have failed to figure this out? Is it just because everyone is so much dumber than you? Or was there some kind of anti-Lamarck conspiracy, do you think?

Quote:

It does seem that everyone is much dumber then me yes. I have never been one to hold public opinion in much regard. People believe what they are told and nothing else. If there is a majority in the opinion then there is no questioning at all and anyone who doesn't agree is the dumb one.

You have just demonstrated your ignorance of the scientific method, unsurprisingly combined with arrogance. Generally, learning more about how science actually works, and how creative and intelligent scientists had to be to figure out the truth, is humbling.

Quote:

Genetics is a fairly new field still developing that has been studied with Darwin tinted glasses so there is going to be a major bias in that direction.

Cite references to biased genetic studies, please. Otherwise stop slandering people you don't know, who work in a subject about which you know even less.

Quote:

If they had a better understanding of genetics back in the day then lamarkisim may be still around.

Back in the day they knew almost nothing about genetics, including what a gene was, but they observed by experiment that acquired characteristics are not inherited. Among other things, they gave organisms characteristics, then observed that they were not inherited.

Quote:

Once people have a better understanding that genetic changes don't necessarily manifest themselves physically but doesn't mean there weren't changes genetically or epigenetically.

Geneticists understand this quite well. It doesn't result in Lamarckism.

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07-08-2007, 07:34 PM	#41
deadman_932 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Altadena, California Posts: 3,271	so...because you haven't seen evidence of mutation-driven evo...your alternative is to select Lamarckism that has no evidence. Wise, very wise.

07-08-2007, 08:01 PM	#44
show_no_mercy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dancing Posts: 9,940	Hey Elijah, Where did you earn your PhD in biology from? What was the topic of the thesis you defended?

07-08-2007, 08:27 PM	#49
deadman_932 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Altadena, California Posts: 3,271	I'm starting to feel sorry for all those desert chuckwallas and spiny lizards and such. Mutating at such an enormous rate must be tiring.

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