Freethought & Rationalism Archive

joedad · 06-08-2008, 07:16 PM

My dad believed that heaven was a place where all life’s inequities and pain would be vanquished. If someone fucked you over on this Earth for example and got away with it, it would be made up for in heaven. There would be this perfect justice carried out.

Now if a person really does get fucked over or is struggling in some other way and feels helpless, this heaven bullshit can become a powerful enticement. And the primary way of getting some heaven is to keep giving the Jesus salesmen lots of money. So the Jesus salesmen aren’t out to empower people but rather to disempower them. This makes selling a heaven story a lot easier.

So no matter the injustice, heaven is the solution.

The people like my dad who think about heaven this way never think about it beyond those terms and so never see the contradictions. Life is just too tough on them, or at least they believe it is. Their loyalty is to heaven and the jesus salesmen.

George Oilwell · 06-08-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RILEY_STONE

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimbulb

"to be bask eternally in the presence of 'The Lord' and to sing Eternal Praise?"

I guess.

But with Christians they have no clue and stranger still, no curiosity about what is in store for them. Harps and eternal church service? Damn, that's some goal?

I had a Christian tell me recently that heaven is NOT a resort or a carnival of sorts. It's a place where Christians are going to worship God forever, which is what will give them pleasure. So I guess Christians think that experiencing pleasure is the ultimate purpose in life. That strikes me as ironic, though, considering the fact that most Christians would probably say that experiencing pleasure in this life isn't terribly important.

I think you ask a great question in your OP, though...what is it about "worshipping God" for eternity that would be meaningful or good or worth striving for? Sounds like hell to me. When you think about it though, when Christians use the word "love" to describe God, they are often referring to characteristics that most of us think of us as hateful. (i.e. a "perfectly loving" God who eternally torments people in hell.) It only makes sense then that when Christians use of the word "heaven," they are actually referring to an existence that is as meaningless, drab, and hellish as one could possibly imagine.

So xtians do all of that church going and praise singing for what exactly?

More church going and praise singing for all eternity. *shudder*

Joan of Bark · 06-09-2008, 05:09 AM

Christians believe in heaven because they can't handle the thought of their own mortality.

When a Christian tells me that heaven is perfect, I would respond with: "So you'd be better off dead?"

Trout · 06-09-2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimbulb

I suppose, buffalo in the Happy Hunting Ground Heaven for the Indians.

I once heard an Indian in northern British Columbia interviewed on it and he had no conception of a "heaven" that could exist without animals, lakes, trees, etc At least that guy was somewhat practical about the idea as opposed to christians who really have no specifics at all and don't even truly think about what heaven even means.

Amazingly enough as they seem to devote a lot of time to pumping up the idea.

dimbulb · 06-09-2008, 08:24 AM

Christians strive for heaven the way dogs chase cars.

It's all about the tail wagging, the barking, the headlong mindless pursuit and not a thought about how indigestible it would really be.

Tigers! · 06-09-2008, 06:30 PM

I always thought that heaven was God's abode.

ziffel · 06-09-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

I always thought that heaven was God's abode.

So God "lives" there? Kind of like his personal space? I thought God was "everywhere"

Tigers! · 06-09-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziffel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

I always thought that heaven was God's abode.

So God "lives" there? Kind of like his personal space? I thought God was "everywhere"

If you're happy with the thought of God being everywhere that's fine by me.

Draconis · 06-09-2008, 06:56 PM

Spending an eternity endlessly singing the praises of someone who apparently knows he's the best seems quite pointless to me. I think I'd get bored after about 10 seconds.
(okay, okay, you're fab... now can I go sit down on that comfy cloud?)

As for the 72 virgins, do they magically stay virgins after you've seduced them?
If they do, why isn't one enough? If they don't stay virgins, then 72 isn't going to last
very long, certainly not an eternity. Perhaps you get a whole new supply once you've used up the first 72. And what exactly does virginity, or sex, mean when you're dead?
Presumably if you are a homosexual suicide bomber things might get a little complicated in heaven.

Bullmoose Too · 06-09-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimbulb

I have been told more than once by Believers that their faith gives them a purpose in their life. And in fact, without that purpose life isn't worth living.
According to them, their purpose is to serve God and find everlasting life aka Heaven.

So here are my questions:
What is going to be your purpose in your Everlasting Life?
Is Eternal Life worth "living" without one?
Is Heaven the ultimate? Or is there a Life #3 that you must strive for when you get to Heaven?
Or is Everlasting Life an existence totally devoid of a purpose?
And if you can imagine that Heaven is a "life" without a goal, why can't you believe this Life is also without purpose?

From what I can gather about the Christian heaven: Heaven is like an eternal and celestial North Korea. All you do is praise the Leader.

You are talking about the Christian Heaven right?

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06-08-2008, 07:16 PM	#21
joedad Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: PA USA Posts: 5,039	My dad believed that heaven was a place where all life’s inequities and pain would be vanquished. If someone fucked you over on this Earth for example and got away with it, it would be made up for in heaven. There would be this perfect justice carried out. Now if a person really does get fucked over or is struggling in some other way and feels helpless, this heaven bullshit can become a powerful enticement. And the primary way of getting some heaven is to keep giving the Jesus salesmen lots of money. So the Jesus salesmen aren’t out to empower people but rather to disempower them. This makes selling a heaven story a lot easier. So no matter the injustice, heaven is the solution. The people like my dad who think about heaven this way never think about it beyond those terms and so never see the contradictions. Life is just too tough on them, or at least they believe it is. Their loyalty is to heaven and the jesus salesmen.

06-09-2008, 05:09 AM	#23
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	Christians believe in heaven because they can't handle the thought of their own mortality. When a Christian tells me that heaven is perfect, I would respond with: "So you'd be better off dead?"

06-09-2008, 08:24 AM	#25
dimbulb Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: SE U.S. Posts: 1,981	Christians strive for heaven the way dogs chase cars. It's all about the tail wagging, the barking, the headlong mindless pursuit and not a thought about how indigestible it would really be.

06-09-2008, 06:30 PM	#26
Tigers! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On the wing, waiting for a kick Posts: 2,558	I always thought that heaven was God's abode.

06-09-2008, 06:56 PM	#29
Draconis Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 3,165	Spending an eternity endlessly singing the praises of someone who apparently knows he's the best seems quite pointless to me. I think I'd get bored after about 10 seconds. (okay, okay, you're fab... now can I go sit down on that comfy cloud?) As for the 72 virgins, do they magically stay virgins after you've seduced them? If they do, why isn't one enough? If they don't stay virgins, then 72 isn't going to last very long, certainly not an eternity. Perhaps you get a whole new supply once you've used up the first 72. And what exactly does virginity, or sex, mean when you're dead? Presumably if you are a homosexual suicide bomber things might get a little complicated in heaven.

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