CX

I'm aware of all that and I still maintain that Constantine was never a member of the Roman Cult of Mithras. He was a member of the Cult of Sol Invicti which is not equivalent as well as Xianity and some others. If you can please provide a reference that Constantine was a member of the Mithras Cult.

The myths themselves are also falsely associated. The myths of Mitra in Persia and Mithras in the Roman Empire are not related. Secondly we know next to nothing about the actual mythos and ritual of the Roman Cult of Mithras because our only sources are largely archaeological; primarily in the forum of mithraea discovered throughout the empire. The strange symbology of the Tauroctony is still not well understood. In any event there is no connection whatever between the Roman Cult of Mithras and Xianity.

And the point I've tried to make is that Roman Mithras did not evolve from anything or to anything. It was a novel creation in the first centuries of the common era and a syncretistic blend of a novel cult with the existing Cult of Sol Invicti that borrowed some names and terminology from Persia to give it the stamp of antiquity and thus authenticity.

CX

"It is equally clear...that the cult of Mithras was not accepted by the ruling elite of the Roman Empire." (The Roman Cult of Mithras p.33)

Biff the unclean

That's like claiming that Mormonism isn't evolved from Christianity but appeared out of a vacuum. Care to give us a source or two?

Biff the unclean

Commodus and Julian the Apostate will be surprised to hear that.

You might want to give Campbell's Occidental Mythology a look

CX

"...no direct continuity, either of a general kind or in specific details, can be demonstrated between the Perso-Hellenistic worship of Mitra and the Roman Mysteries of Mithras." (The Roman Cult of Mithras, Manfred Clauss, p. 7)

Mithraic scholar R.L. Gordon presented a paper at the first congress of mithraic studies concluding that cumont's Iranian hypothesis was invalid and that we should reject "any theory which assumes that it is valid to look to Iranian religion...in order to explain the significance and function of symbols in the Western mystery religion of Mithras." (Mithraic Studies, Vol 2, p. 225)

"Western Mithraism originally had nothing to do with ancient Iran." (The Origins of The Mithraic Mysteries, David Ulansey, p. 111) [NB: one of the few things Ulansey theorizes that I and others agree with]

All of the modern scholarship on the issue is clear, there is no direct relationship between the Persian Mitra and the Roman Mithras.

CX

Julian the Apostate, Grandson of Constantine I, who tried to revive paganism was NOT a member of the Roman Cult of Mithras. He was, like his grandfather Constantine, a member of the Deus Sol Invictus cult which was imported from Syria and which was, for a time the national cult of the Roman Empire. This cult is NOT equivalent to Roman Mithraism, rather, the Roman Cult of Mithras, identified their deity with Sol Invicti sometimes as the direct equivalent sometimes as allies. The Cult of Deus Sol Invictus and the Roman Cult of Mithras are completely different cults.

Magdlyn

Then why do bishops and popes wear the same headgear of the Mithraic clergy, the mitre?

Slips my mind where, but I read somewhere the Pope still carries a title given to top Mithraic clergy as well. Supreme Pontiff?

Magdlyn

From tektonics:

http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_04_02_04_MMM.html

Mithras, derived from Perseus, who was born in an underground cavern...um, a cave?

Jesus, born in a temporary dwelling, caves often being used for temporary dwellings in the world of ancient travelers. Often in art, the "stable" was depicted as surrounded by rock walls and crags. Ie:

http://www.abcgallery.com/I/icons/icons23.html

CX, I know you have read Ulansey on this. All I have are these quotes. Why the fudging around between the definition of cave as underground cavern?

ichabod crane

According to the gospels, he was born in a stable at an Inn. You don't keep animals in caves, not if you want them to stay healthy.

Magdlyn

Please don't generalize, ichabod crane. In Matthew, Jesus was born in his home in Bethlehem. No census, no pre-birth traveling. The Magi visited him in his house when he is approximately 2 yrs old. (John and Mark are silent on the birthplace.)

In Luke, there was no room at a temporary dwelling, so he was born in an unspecified place (not a stable) and laid on some kind of animal feed bench. I don't take either story literally of course, but this animal area could have been a rough stony part of a temporary dwelling for travelers, and might have been built into the rocky hillside. Certainly there is a strong "tradition" that Jesus was born in a cave (Protoevangelium of James, Justin, Origen). It is no coincidence Constantine's mother found Jesus "actual birth place" in the 4th century to be a cave.

Sure animals could be kept in a cave. Humans lived in caves! So would their animals. Humans would often start a home in a cave and build out from that foundation as finances permitted.