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andrewcriddle · 10-13-2012, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

http://books.google.com/books?id=zJq...assian&f=false

Quote:

Furthermore, it seems probable that Prosper, writing to Rufinus in 426 or 427, had this collatio in mind when he spoke of opposition to Augustine's predestinarian views

You wrote 535 CE. As I understand it this Epistula ad Rufinum was a letter written by Prosper Tiro of Aquitaine to a certain Rufinus, who has never been identified nor has the exact year of the epistle been determined. Does Conferences 13 appear in the Greek?

Sorry my fault. I meant 435 NOT 535. The work against Collation 13 (which is not the same as the letter to Rufinus) refers to Sixtus bishop of rome from 432 to 440 as being the current pope.

Andrew Criddle

Added

The Greek text edited by Panayiotis Tzamalikos does not have Conference 13. Since it deals with an issue (freewill and predestination) much more significant in the West than the East it is almost certainly originally Latin.

andrewcriddle · 10-13-2012, 03:05 AM

For Reference

Conference 13

Prosper on Grace and Free Will against the Conferences (very limited preview).

NB

The work against Conference 13 is a different work than the letter to rufinus (also confusingly known as On Grace and Free Will.)

Andrew Criddle

andrewcriddle · 10-13-2012, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

I was just reading . Apparently other people (Owen Chadwick) have argued for this reference to be a later interpolation in Prosper. http://books.google.com/books?id=TRl...assian&f=false

Chadwick is referring here to a reference to Cassian in Prosper's History which is certainly a forgery.

Andrew Criddle

andrewcriddle · 10-13-2012, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

What do you think of this Andrew?

Quote:

Chadwick notes that Cassian here (Conferences 13) addresses all but one of the main texts cited by Augustine in support of grace in De corrections (Cassian, 122)

Owen Chadwick, John Cassian, 2nd ed. (Cambridge, Eng., 1968); idem, "Cassian," in Theologische Realenzyklopiidie, 26, 596-600. Is it possible that Collatio 13 was a development of something originally written by Pelagius (not being suggested here by Chadwick but a possibility?)?

Collation 13 is Semi-Pelagian not Pelagian. I.E. it is written by someone who did not particularly support Pelagius but who opposed Augustine's teaching on predestination.

Andrew Criddle

andrewcriddle · 10-13-2012, 03:38 AM

One thing about the argument of Panayiotis Tzamalikos that bothers me is the claim in The Real Cassian Revisited page 122 note 39

Quote:

Besides, Prosper appears unaware of Conference XIII. O. Chadwick (p.129) made a strong case about Prosper not actually referring to this conference which was published later.

The reference here is to John Cassian by Owen Chadwick published 1968. But it is a misunderstanding. Chadwick is arguing that the earlier letters of Prosper written while Celestine was Pope show no knowledge of Conference 13. He is definitely not suggesting that On Grace and Free Will Against the Conferences does not refer to Conference 13.

Andrew Criddle

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10-13-2012, 03:05 AM	#22
andrewcriddle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Birmingham UK Posts: 4,876	For Reference Conference 13 Prosper on Grace and Free Will against the Conferences (very limited preview). NB The work against Conference 13 is a different work than the letter to rufinus (also confusingly known as On Grace and Free Will.) Andrew Criddle

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