SlowTrainComing

You're saying that, in a matter of six or so years, a rabidly anti-Christian faction invented a man they would hate and rail against?

Come on now.

Minimalist

Really? Where might that be? The only such story I know has him stuck up on a tree after a long trial without any Romans involved. Very few christians I know have any great desire to latch onto that one as "supporting" their tale.

As for Josephus, please. If the TF existed in any recognizable form in the 3d century when Origen makes specific reference to Book XVII of Antiquities of the Jews, then he would have to have been the dumbest sonofabitch in history not to have used it in his writings.

Whatever was there, before Eusebius forged the TF, was such that it did not trigger Origen's interest that it was referring to "his" jesus.

SlowTrainComing

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Keith&Co.

You use the term contemporary and phrases like historians of the time.

I'm just asking how you define those ideas. What makes an author 'contemporary' and what is 'the time' you consider appropriate?

I don't think there's a goalpost shift inside the question 'you use that word a lot. Exactly how do you mean it?'

Meatros

No, it's not, since messianic judaism is a recent concept. Are you suggesting that Josephus had the ability to time travel?

Toto said it better, of course, when he said:

figuer

Incorrect:

1. Jesus was a Jew.

2. Jesus is presented as the Messiah (Christ) to the Jews.

3. Christianity was originally just a Jewish sect.

4. Jew can denote ethnicity and/or religion, Christianity just religion

5. Most early Christians were ethnic Jews.

6. A Jew who accepts Jesus as the Messiah does not cease to be an ethnic Jew, and could remain a cultural Jew (language, traditions/diets).

SlowTrainComing

I'd say the gap between 33 A.D. and 39 A.D. doesn't represent a shift in eras. And that those six years isn't enough time for an anti-Christian sect to "create" the concept of a man who "allegedly" started a faith they despise.

Your stance seems to be that, in 39 A.D., a group that despised Christianity began to invent Jesus and claimed that He had been executed six years prior.

SlowTrainComing

Jews became Christians even in those days.

aa5874

The Jesus of the NT could NOT have been a Jew. He could NOT have lived as described.

There are NO records of followers of a human being called JESUS during the days of Pilate external of apologetic sources.

The word "Christ" predates the Jesus stories.

Keith&Co.

YOu seem to be either confusing me with something else or making shit up out of thin air. I've made no such claims or stance about six years or anything like it.

I'm just asking how you define 'contemporary.' Not in what age or era. Do you think the word means 'at the same time' or 'within two generations' or what?

I'm also interested in seeing any sort of evidence to match your 'myriads' claim. So far as i can tell, you've ponied up Josephus, offering not the document that has been kinda marginalized by scholars as containing forged elements, but the original writing which may have referred to Jesus more negatively but realistically.
But, really, that's more of an IOU for evidence , not evidence , what? If we had the original, that would be evidence, sure. But we don't.