Freethought & Rationalism Archive

08-17-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Devilnaut

It's definately not common knowledge. The more it gets out the more of the second beast you'll see wandering around. The second beast knew God in his head but not in his heart. And he thought that you could make people worship God, and that people could be convinced of this and that.

Really... if you're looking for a scholar or someone to trust don't listen to me. I've never read the bible. I read that part with the two beasts for the first time just now on the internet.

Sorry I lost track of this tread but this may bump it up again.

You're a good reader Devilnaut and you are not deceived by popular opinion.

The second beast knew God in his head and worshipped the first beast (that bore the stigmata). The first beast is the Christian who is reborn from God and the second beast is the wannebe Christian who is reborn from carnal desire and looks back into history to see Jesus as the first beast and then forces everybody to fall in line with his idea of how to be a Christian.

08-17-2003, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RTS

>>And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems upon its horns and a blasphemous name upon its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth followed the beast with wonder.<<

This is the sun rising in all its unrestrained power at the dawn of a new zodiacal age. Here, the writer is plainly letting us know that Christ is zodiacal or Kronian symbol�and not a historical figure. But an unscrupulous church has arisen that has clothed this divine being in flesh and, in this sense, turned him into a beast. And without the civilizing influence of 1080�a beast this creature is indeed. He has a mortal wound but it has healed�the crucifixion and subsequent resurrection.

That is very nice RTS but I see it different.

The two beasts of Rev. 14 describe the two different kinds of rebirth that can happen to us. They are foreshadowed in Jn.1:13 as either from God or from carnal desire.

The first beast is the reborn animal man that emerged out of the sea to indicate that this man was not rational at the time of rebirth. This animal came out of the sea as opposed to the earth to distinguish between heaven and earth wherein the sea is heaven and earth is hell.

Note here that salvation in the Catholic tradition is a non-rational event (hands-off you fornicators) that comes if it wills and must come as a thief in the night, etc. Catholicism is therefore a mystery religion wherein the mystery of faith is contained in the second coming of Christ in a personal way to its members at its own time without any credit given to the Church.

This kind of rebirth removes the divide between the left and right brain and therefore it can be said that the father and I are one; with the father being the subconscious and the son being the conscious mind.

Because of this convergeance there will be victory over sin through the understanding his own mind. The seven heads are the Cardinal Virtues juxtaposed with the capital sins and the 10 diadems indicate victory over sin (see also 1Jn.3:9).

The dragon is the stronghold of the conscious mind. It is like an overblown serpent that used to rule over a large ego (salvation is for sinners only).

The 42 months is the time we call Purgatory. It is the time spend to search your own soul and be set free from religion and indoctrination.

So the scrupulous Church has made this transformation available to its members and out of this insight our civilization became the greatest of all.

Quote:

>>Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain. If any one has an ear, let him hear: If any one is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if any one slays with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.<<

The saints spoken of here are the Gnostic saints not Christian ones. Those who worship this beast�the human Jesus Christ�are those who do not understand who this ancient personage truly is. There is no reward for enduring suffering in this world, says John. If you are taken captive then you are a captive and that is all. Slay with the sword in the name of this Jesus creature and you will someday die that way. John assures that Gnostics that this is the truth and endure the Christian bastardization of their religion.

Not at all. Metamorphosis (rebirth) is an involuntary event that we, if called and chosen, cannot stop, change or cause to happen. It was foreshadowed in Jn.21:18, just before Jesus said "follow me." If we try to force it upon others we will rob them of eternal life and deserve the millstone ourselves.

Quote:

>>Then I saw another beast which rose out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.<<

This is a reference to the church that arose in the name of the human Christ beast. Its rising up out of the earth represents its material origins and intentions. Its �two horns like a lamb� represents its devil-in-disguise nature. It speaks or roars like a dragon frightening the spiritually timid into its fold.

This beast came out of the earth and was reborn following one the many sola scriptura recipes. All of these are carnal in origen and no divine intervention (subconscious mind) was ever part of it. Its two horns describe the saved sinner complex and therefore still has the dragon in charge. This beast was given a scorpion instead of a fish in that it is made aware of heaven but cannot cross the great divide and because of its direct awareness of the divine "the smoke of its torment" is visible to those in heaven.

Quote:

>>This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six.<<

The number of the beast IS the number of a man for man is the beastly part of God according to Gnostic belief. And its number is 666, the solar number whose power is unchecked by 1080�the woman who ran and hid in the wilderness from the dreadful dragon of darkness who created the man-beast Christ and the Church that arose in its name. �And its number is 666� reads in Greek �kai arithmos autou 666.� 666 is represented in the Greek text by Chi, xi and stigma or 600, 60 and 6. �kai arithmos autou� adds up to 1702 and adding on the 666, we get 2368 or Iesous Christos.

Now you've been warned!

The number of the second beast 666 because it failled to become "fully man" and remained a "certain man."The man's number is 888 because it has become eternal (full circle) in both minds. Notice that in the number 3 we were not complete in either mind and sought our pleasure in the number 4 which is made up out of the three lesser gods of power wealth and beauty.

Your numbers were interesting but your warning is adressed to the wrong people.

Braveheart · 08-18-2003, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by R P McMurphy
Hello Everyone,

I'm a newbie here, but I really like the threads and discussions I am reading. Clearly the people who post here are a cut above the average.

I am on a quest. I want to determine what the writer of Revelation had in his mind when he wrote the famous Mark of the Beast passage.

For folks who have not dug into this particular mystery let me say that it is NOT a simple matter. The problem turns into a labyrinth. I have explored several lines and have some progress and suspicions of my own but not that I would feel so confident as to really defend them, so don't savage me, I'm just exploring, not Preaching. Please note, I am NOT a believer, and no "faith" based explanation will do for me in this problem.

What say you? What is the significance of the Mark of the Beast as a number (666)? Why did the writer use this number? Is this number a part of a previously existing tradition? Is it a "secret" message in Revelations? Is it a "code"?

Any opinion based on some kind of evidence is welcome,

Thanks,

R.P. McMurphy

Hello.

I have not read all the responses but my view of 666 is this this.

It is a sign of falling short. 777 would be perfect but Satan tries to imitate God but fails eg the beast which was slain but rises again later in Revelation.

666 is in my opinion a sign of 'falling short' which is the original meaning of the word 'sin'. This is the spiritual point which John was making in Revelation-I believe.

So. Forget about people walking about with 666 tattooed on their foeheads!!

See you're from Arkansas. Was in Little Rock two years ago-my cousin lives there. Great Chinese restaurants there!!!

best,

b

Doctor X · 08-18-2003, 02:46 PM

[Engage Gribble Voice--Ed.]

Scantrons Hank! NUMBER OF THE BEAST! NUMBER OF THE BEAST! The computers take over in September 2004!!!

[Deactivate Gribble Voice--Ed.]

With apologies to Mike Judge. . . .

I think the numerological evidence--posted prior the the rather lengthly commentary regarding Yin and Yang--makes a pretty strong argument that the number represents a Roman emperor.

--J.D.

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08-18-2003, 02:46 PM	#44
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	[Engage Gribble Voice--Ed.] Scantrons Hank! NUMBER OF THE BEAST! NUMBER OF THE BEAST! The computers take over in September 2004!!! [Deactivate Gribble Voice--Ed.] With apologies to Mike Judge. . . . I think the numerological evidence--posted prior the the rather lengthly commentary regarding Yin and Yang--makes a pretty strong argument that the number represents a Roman emperor. --J.D.

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