Janus

We all know how the argument goes:

Theist: "The universe is very complex, therefore it must have been created by a sentient supernatural being."
Atheist: "The creator must be at least as complex as the universe, therefore he must have been designed as well."
Theist: "The creator is eternal, therefore explaining his complexity is unnecessary."

For the sake of this thread, please assume that the universe isn't eternal, that there is only one universe, and the first two statements above are true. What interests me is the third one.
Is eternalness* a valid explanation for complexity?


*Yes, that's an actual word! I looked it up.

cpollett

I doubt (2) and (3). Very simple processes can be responsible for very complicated outcomes. This is what's behind evolution. On the other hand, very simple processes can be eternal:

while(true)
{
//do nothing
}

I am pretty sure most decent creators do more than this.

HRG

True, but an intelligent designer is more than "just responsible" for the outcome. He has planned it and envisioned the whole process which led to it in his mind. Thus his mind must be more complex than the result.

I agree with the OP that eternal existence of X does not explain in the least specific powers for design and creation that X allegedly has,

Regards, HRG.

Biff the unclean

Complexity would be the mark of a very poor designer...like evolution. All of this blundering around blindly could lead to nothing but complexity.

If the universe were elegant simplicitymight imply a sentient being. Though neither would imply that such a being was supernatural. Before you could imply that you'd first need a supernatural.