Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Xeno · 10-30-2003, 09:01 PM

All beliefs are absolute in the sense that a person's desires at any point in time could be considered part of the objective state of affairs of that person's subjective experience.

Is

"It is objectively true that person A desires ham over bacon at some time T"

the absolute you are talking about?

ktriton · 10-30-2003, 09:24 PM

I'm a bit confused here...

Is the absolute the belief itself or what is believed?

Gunnaheave · 10-30-2003, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by meritocrat
If a person prefers ham to bacon, is that absolute?

�well does he make exceptions, or not?

kaelcarp · 10-31-2003, 05:49 AM

I personally don't like ham or bacon.

external solipsism · 10-31-2003, 12:19 PM

Well, I would say that preferences are not as applicable. If a person likes X, then that person likes it. If not, then not. Preferences are not an issue of belief.

On the other hand, let's say a person believes that the earth is flat. The belief is that the earth is flat. The objective truth is that the person believes such. The objective observation of the belief is not itself the belief. The belief is still a subjective thing.

battenj · 11-01-2003, 07:27 AM

hmm, it seems the question should be whether or not it is universal instead of absolute.

Barcode · 11-02-2003, 05:50 AM

Goodness, I don't think so. I mean, I'd be happy to revise my atheism if new evidence emerged which necessitated a change of thought -- unless I wished to cling to what I already knew out of fear, an unwillingness to change, or just plain old dogmatism.

My girlfriend seems to think her beliefs are unshakeable, which concerns me a little; because it seems to indicate no matter how much she may find out or learn about anything else -- it will somehow be filtered out if it doesn't fall in line with Catholic teachings.

All I suppose I'm qualified to say is that my *knowledge* of the world and *not* my experience (since I've felt things that sometimes make me wish there was something bigger) leads me to an atheistic viewpoint.

With the religious, the roles of knowledge and experience tend to be reversed and that's a very dangerous road to go down as far as I'm concerned -- since there is no objective standard to measure your beliefs by.

sparklecat · 11-04-2003, 12:30 PM

Do you mean can you absolutely know that you believe something?

I'd go with no on that one...

keyser_soze · 11-09-2003, 07:22 AM

Roasted at a stake over a bonfire....is absolute.

11-01-2003, 07:27 AM	#16
battenj Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 44	Absolute? hmm, it seems the question should be whether or not it is universal instead of absolute.

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10-30-2003, 09:01 PM	#11
Xeno Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Contingent upon observation Posts: 518	All beliefs are absolute in the sense that a person's desires at any point in time could be considered part of the objective state of affairs of that person's subjective experience. Is "It is objectively true that person A desires ham over bacon at some time T" the absolute you are talking about?

10-30-2003, 09:24 PM	#12
ktriton Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 31	I'm a bit confused here... Is the absolute the belief itself or what is believed?

10-31-2003, 05:49 AM	#14
kaelcarp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Providence, RI Posts: 1,031	I personally don't like ham or bacon.

10-31-2003, 12:19 PM	#15
external solipsism Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Antonio Posts: 840	Well, I would say that preferences are not as applicable. If a person likes X, then that person likes it. If not, then not. Preferences are not an issue of belief. On the other hand, let's say a person believes that the earth is flat. The belief is that the earth is flat. The objective truth is that the person believes such. The objective observation of the belief is not itself the belief. The belief is still a subjective thing.

11-02-2003, 05:50 AM	#17
Barcode Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Portugal Posts: 633	Goodness, I don't think so. I mean, I'd be happy to revise my atheism if new evidence emerged which necessitated a change of thought -- unless I wished to cling to what I already knew out of fear, an unwillingness to change, or just plain old dogmatism. My girlfriend seems to think her beliefs are unshakeable, which concerns me a little; because it seems to indicate no matter how much she may find out or learn about anything else -- it will somehow be filtered out if it doesn't fall in line with Catholic teachings. All I suppose I'm qualified to say is that my knowledge of the world and not my experience (since I've felt things that sometimes make me wish there was something bigger) leads me to an atheistic viewpoint. With the religious, the roles of knowledge and experience tend to be reversed and that's a very dangerous road to go down as far as I'm concerned -- since there is no objective standard to measure your beliefs by.

11-04-2003, 12:30 PM	#18
sparklecat Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,677	Do you mean can you absolutely know that you believe something? I'd go with no on that one...

11-09-2003, 07:22 AM	#19
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	Roasted at a stake over a bonfire....is absolute.

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