Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Duke Leto · 07-19-2012, 08:54 AM

There's something like 100,000 people who show up at the Vatican for Easter Mass. It isn't anything like a requirement, but there are something on the order of a Billion Catholics and on Earth in 2012 and the Vatican is just as big and impressive as the Temple AND we have modern transportation. Italy has a population of 60 million and 2.7 million of these live in Rome proper. The overwhelming majority of the population is Catholic and there is a mandatory 0.8% income tax that goes to the Vatican. (You have the option of having it go to charity, only something like 15% do.)

Even in these secular times, only one in 600 Italians chooses to go to the Vatican for Easter.

You want 1 in 12 of the Jews in existence in the world schlepping to Jerusalem every year?

outhouse · 07-19-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Leto

There's something like 100,000 people who show up at the Vatican for Easter Mass. It isn't anything like a requirement, but there are something on the order of a Billion Catholics and on Earth in 2012 and the Vatican is just as big and impressive as the Temple AND we have modern transportation. Italy has a population of 60 million and 2.7 million of these live in Rome proper. The overwhelming majority of the population is Catholic and there is a mandatory 0.8% income tax that goes to the Vatican. (You have the option of having it go to charity, only something like 15% do.)

Even in these secular times, only one in 600 Italians chooses to go to the Vatican for Easter.

You want 1 in 12 of the Jews in existence in the world schlepping to Jerusalem every year?

No comparison to modern and ancient times :constern01:

outhouse · 07-19-2012, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Jesus: Those who don't have swords should sell their garments and buy one.
Disciples: Here, we have two swords.
Jesus: That will do.

Sounds like swords are available for sale, and cost the same as a suit of clothes.

Roman scribes writing mythology, who dont even belong to the culture their writing about.

Quote:

You used the figures to support your argument, but you claim that you don't believe them.

showing the possible population is one thing

stating less then 400,000 jews would make the journey? well you failed at that.

I honestly dont think you would argue that the total jewish population in the levant is so low that 400,000 could not make the journey.

So what is your arguement?

Quote:

May I point out that Judea was not a province at this time,

yes which includes Galilee

that doesnt mean romans were not there, and it doesnt mean romans did not control the jewish governement.

may I remind you of the tax war with the zealots in galilee what 06, ce.

we hade a tax war when jesus was a baby, we had a tax war that destroyed the temple, and jesus even preaching against taxes getting the tax farmers to give up their take, and jesus possibly starting a riot in the treasury.

jews were not committing suicide over taxes because there was no money involed.

and we know Pilate already raped the treasury once for the aquaduct, and had his hand in the till for tax reasons.

the only reason jesus was famous was for standing up against the roman corruption in gods house that also spread to all of the jewish governement

outhouse · 07-19-2012, 09:54 AM

water
food
poulation
sewer

all, check

so if you want to fight something, pick it and make a case, so far you have failed

Duke Leto · 07-19-2012, 10:14 AM

The refusal to move even SLIGHTLY in the face of common sense is astounding.

Especially when an authority whose name you provided as a person whose opinion you would respect raises exactly the same common sense objections that Sarpedon and I have been harping on this whole time.

You claim to be a rational atheist, but are being immensely irrational.

I'm actually going to put this to vote.

steve_bnk · 07-19-2012, 10:39 AM

400,000? Food and water, housing, and more so sanitation would be a serious problem. With the Jewish obsession with ritual cleanliness, it would be a nigthmare.

Most of Rome had a sewage ad diseae problems.

For the sermon on the mount I'd say more like a few hundred. Get larger and it woud have to be a planned, orgainized, and advertised event. 400,000 would certainly get the attention of Rome fearful of uprisings. 400,000 is an army.

Even 1000 would attract attention.

In a bio of Gandhi I read an accout of an Indian conference with no facilities. It was gross, people took a dump anywhere convienient.

outhouse · 07-19-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Leto

The refusal to move even SLIGHTLY in the face of common sense is astounding.

Especially when an authority whose name you provided as a person whose opinion you would respect raises exactly the same common sense objections that Sarpedon and I have been harping on this whole time.

You claim to be a rational atheist, but are being immensely irrational.

I'm actually going to put this to vote.

he flat stated he didnt know. and questioned it. typical Richard lol

You have to love his methogology to question deeper. And I do. Ive learned more about the cultural anthropology doing such.

with that said polls are nothing more then a popularity contest.

now we have one scholar stating the temple was so large it could contain the 400,000 people, and we have other historians from antiquity stating that one year the temple had overflowed for a one week event.

outhouse · 07-19-2012, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

400,000? Food and water, housing, and more so sanitation would be a serious problem. With the Jewish obsession with ritual cleanliness, it would be a nigthmare.

Most of Rome had a sewage ad diseae problems.

For the sermon on the mount I'd say more like a few hundred. Get larger and it woud have to be a planned, orgainized, and advertised event. 400,000 would certainly get the attention of Rome fearful of uprisings. 400,000 is an army.

Even 1000 would attract attention.

In a bio of Gandhi I read an accout of an Indian conference with no facilities. It was gross, people took a dump anywhere convienient.

the sermon on the mount is a fictional account, not only was that logistically impossible but the fables contradict themselves, PLUS jesus would have never rambled off parables after parable the way the romans described it.

Now as far as what you stated about the crowds at passover, would the same not be true, no matter what number is posted??? :huh:

again, I will point out, the temple had practice at large crowds yearly. this wasnt its first rodeo.

steve_bnk · 07-19-2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

400,000? Food and water, housing, and more so sanitation would be a serious problem. With the Jewish obsession with ritual cleanliness, it would be a nigthmare.

Most of Rome had a sewage ad diseae problems.

For the sermon on the mount I'd say more like a few hundred. Get larger and it woud have to be a planned, orgainized, and advertised event. 400,000 would certainly get the attention of Rome fearful of uprisings. 400,000 is an army.

Even 1000 would attract attention.

In a bio of Gandhi I read an accout of an Indian conference with no facilities. It was gross, people took a dump anywhere convienient.

the sermon on the mount is a fictional account, not only was that logistically impossible but the fables contradict themselves, PLUS jesus would have never rambled off parables after parable the way the romans described it.

Now as far as what you stated about the crowds at passover, would the same not be true, no matter what number is posted??? :huh:

again, I will point out, the temple had practice at large crowds yearly. this wasnt its first rodeo.

It is just speculation as is a lot of the criticism/history forum.

400,000 people at say a gallon of waterr a day is 400,00 gallons of potable water per day. Fuel for cooking. Livestock and crops.

I can't navigate back to the link, I read Judea was around 20,000.

Iskander · 07-19-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

400,000? Food and water, housing, and more so sanitation would be a serious problem. With the Jewish obsession with ritual cleanliness, it would be a nigthmare.

Most of Rome had a sewage ad diseae problems.

For the sermon on the mount I'd say more like a few hundred. Get larger and it woud have to be a planned, orgainized, and advertised event. 400,000 would certainly get the attention of Rome fearful of uprisings. 400,000 is an army.

Even 1000 would attract attention.

In a bio of Gandhi I read an accout of an Indian conference with no facilities. It was gross, people took a dump anywhere convienient.

the sermon on the mount is a fictional account, not only was that logistically impossible but the fables contradict themselves, PLUS jesus would have never rambled off parables after parable the way the romans described it.

Now as far as what you stated about the crowds at passover, would the same not be true, no matter what number is posted??? :huh:

again, I will point out, the temple had practice at large crowds yearly. this wasnt its first rodeo.

Quote:

again, I will point out, the temple had practice at large crowds yearly. this wasnt its first rodeo

Did Sanders write anything on Pesachim 64b?

The Talmud Pesachim 64b

Quote:

Our Rabbis taught: No man was ever crushed in the Temple Court (8) except on one Passover in the days of Hillel, when an old man was crushed, and they called it ‘The Passover of the crushed’.

Our Rabbis taught: King Agrippa once wished to cast his eyes on the hosts of Israel.(9) Said he to the High Priest, Cast your eyes upon the Passover sacrifices. He [thereupon] took a kidney from each, and six-hundred-thousand pairs of kidneys were found there, twice as many as those who departed from Egypt, excluding those who were unclean and those who were on a distant journey; and there was not a single Paschal lamb for which more than ten people had not registered; and they called it, ‘The Passover of the dense throngs.’

(8) In spite of the enormous crowds that thronged it.

(9) I.e., to take a census of the Jewish people. This was an unpopular proceeding, as it was regarded as of unfortunate omen; cf. I Chron. XXI. In addition, a census was looked upon with suspicion as being the possible precursor of fresh levies and taxation, and the decision of Quirinius, the governor of Syria, to take a census in Judea (c. 6-7 C.E.) nearly precipitated a revolt; v. Graetz. History of the Jews (Eng. translation) II, ch. V. pp. 129 seq. According to Graetz (op. cit. p. 252) the present census was undertaken by Agrippa II in the year 66 C.E. as a hint to the Roman powers not to underrate the strength of the Jewish people, and therefore avoid driving them too far by the cruelty and greed of the Procurator, at that time Gessius Florus. Graetz assumes that an extra large number flocked to Jerusalem on that occasion, and it is then that the old man was suffocated. This however does not agree with the statement that the man was crushed in the days of Hillel, which is a far earlier date, Hillel having flourished or commenced his Patriarchate one hundred years before the destruction of the Temple, i.e., 30 B.C.E.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-19-2012, 08:54 AM	#161
Duke Leto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 3,387	There's something like 100,000 people who show up at the Vatican for Easter Mass. It isn't anything like a requirement, but there are something on the order of a Billion Catholics and on Earth in 2012 and the Vatican is just as big and impressive as the Temple AND we have modern transportation. Italy has a population of 60 million and 2.7 million of these live in Rome proper. The overwhelming majority of the population is Catholic and there is a mandatory 0.8% income tax that goes to the Vatican. (You have the option of having it go to charity, only something like 15% do.) Even in these secular times, only one in 600 Italians chooses to go to the Vatican for Easter. You want 1 in 12 of the Jews in existence in the world schlepping to Jerusalem every year?

07-19-2012, 09:54 AM	#164
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	water food poulation sewer all, check so if you want to fight something, pick it and make a case, so far you have failed

07-19-2012, 10:14 AM	#165
Duke Leto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 3,387	The refusal to move even SLIGHTLY in the face of common sense is astounding. Especially when an authority whose name you provided as a person whose opinion you would respect raises exactly the same common sense objections that Sarpedon and I have been harping on this whole time. You claim to be a rational atheist, but are being immensely irrational. I'm actually going to put this to vote.

07-19-2012, 10:39 AM	#166
steve_bnk Contributor Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,602	400,000? Food and water, housing, and more so sanitation would be a serious problem. With the Jewish obsession with ritual cleanliness, it would be a nigthmare. Most of Rome had a sewage ad diseae problems. For the sermon on the mount I'd say more like a few hundred. Get larger and it woud have to be a planned, orgainized, and advertised event. 400,000 would certainly get the attention of Rome fearful of uprisings. 400,000 is an army. Even 1000 would attract attention. In a bio of Gandhi I read an accout of an Indian conference with no facilities. It was gross, people took a dump anywhere convienient.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.