Harry Bosch

You are the one asserting that Jesus is the son of God!!! How in the world could we prove a negative? I believe that the Great Flying Spagetti Monster is the Son of God. Now, prove me wrong.

DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR

The Great Flying Spagetti Monster is a female, therefore not the Son or son [same difference] of God.

Chili

You have a weird idea of God. We all know who the Great Flying Spagetti Monster is but can't image who his father would be. Could you help us out here?

Chris Weimer

What evidence do you have that Augustus was not the son of God?

DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR

Who her father is:

Jack the Bodiless

I consider myself to be an "agnostic" on the Jesus-myth issue, but here are some reasons for suspecting that Jesus was mythical:

1. Paul seems reluctant to cite or quote Jesus: instead he refers to his own "personal revelation" and the Old Testament. If Jesus was a real person who said some stuff, why does Paul seem so unaware of what he said?

2. Paul, who never actually met Jesus (except "in a vision"), seems to be strangely influential. He has some disgreements with the Jerusalem church over circumcision, but why isn't he simply sidelined by those who knew the real Jesus and therefore have more credibility? Maybe because nobody knew the real Jesus?

3. A lot of stuff written about Jesus was fiction, apparently intended to have him "fulfil prophecies" (often rather tenuous ones), or to draw parallels with pagan myths. I don't consider this to be especially compelling either way, because a real human Jesus could have been mythologized, but there isn't much left when the myths are stripped away. What did the real Jesus say or do?

4. I've seen claims that the Gospel of Mark was based on a play by Seneca, but I don't know the details. If true, that would make Jesus basically a fictional character, where "any resemblance to specific persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental".

However, none of these is especially compelling, and it's still rather likely that such myths grew up around a real person (this is quite common). One fact that I find rather interesting is the strangely limited nature of Jesus' miracles, especially the resurrection. If the author was merely writing fiction, he could have had Jesus make some big public appearances to prove to everyone that he was alive: but this doesn't happen. All we get in the gospels are a few "Elvis-sightings" by small groups of his closest followers: about what you'd expect if a real cult leader was killed and his followers were in denial. Even the miracles he allegedly performed before the crucifixion were witnessed only by close followers and conveniently anonymous crowds: it seems that nobody in authority saw anything unusual. It seems unlikely that the creator of a purely fictional Jesus would be so constrained (compare with Moses, a fictional character who performed conspicuous miracles: though, admittedly, the author of Exodus was writing of events "a long time ago in a country far, far away").

dog-on

50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.


That's kind of a doozie though, isn't it?

Condraz23

I think Jesus Christ did exist, but I do not believe that he is the son of God.

Rather, he was the leader of an obscure Jewish sect. If you believe that Jesus Christ was a genuine prophet, then there is no logical reason to deny the credibility of other religious prophets such as Muhammad, Krishna, Claude Vorilhon, Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, or Gautama Buddha.

Huon

These questions can be easily turned like this :

So what evidence do you have the Jesus is the Son of God? Any? If not, then the beliefs of Christians come purely from their imaginations which makes them by definition, imaginary beliefs. End of story.

markfiend

I waver on the HJ/MJ issue. I'd agree with most of what Jack the Bodiless says above, except that I generally tend more towards mythicism. With a caveat that I probably don't have the relevant expertise to judge the evidence properly; I'm largely relying on other people's opinions of the evidence.

I sometimes wonder whether I'm biased in favour of the MJ hypothesis as a source for Schadenfreude at the expense of Christians.