TomboyMom

Have you examined this passage from the Tao Te Ching, written around 500 years before Christ?
Taoism. Tao Te Ching 63

Or this one from the Buddha from around the same time?
Dhammapada 223

or this one from the Ramayana, interestingly, from around the same period?
. Ramayana, Yuddha Kanda 115

Sheshbazzar

The first two of your charges do not apply to anything I wrote, the second two, somewhat:
"I don't see you doing anything about it" I did write some about the individual being able to make the world a better place for all men, after someone had expressed the opinion that such efforts were futile.

"you're just pissed off with God". My first post in this thread lampooned the immaturity of the reasoning behind the previous posts, each of which in its own way was expressing a disaffection and contempt for the "gawd" of their misconceptions.

But as for the subject of babies, pregnant women and innocent children dying
by the sword in warfare, by the will of men, or by the express will and commandment of YHWH.
As one who believes in YHWH, and in His mercy, and that the Heavens exist, and are a far better place, it is my belief that these were by the mercy of YHWH, removed from further suffering of the cruelties of that age.
(even as all the millions of babies who are being exterminated in these days)
They are spoken for by The Head of the house-hold of faith, His Amen is spoken for all of whom are because of age, or infirmity of the flesh, or of the mind unable to speak for themselves.
By one Word, all are confirmed, and all that are confirmed, are received, and all that are received are Delivered.
My expectation is to hear them all sing His praises, and to sing along with them, in that age to come. hallel-u-YAH!

TomboyMom

Gid is justified in murdering innocent babies because Heaven is a better place than cruel life on earth? That is so sick. You are a dangerous person. So I guess I'm justified in murdering you now?
And now you're asking us to praise this genocidal maniac who orders his followers to stab little babies to death? No thank you.

Sheshbazzar

I trust that readers with intellectual honesty will be able to detect that the word "suffer" as I applied it, clearly meant what a person experienced that made them to become as they are.
Suffering has always been a relative term, Pharaoh suffered the burdens imposed by his wealth and power, Cavendish "suffered" his, angst, today, Bill Gates "suffers" his wealth, recently stating that he'd rather not be the worlds wealthiest man.

Sheshbazzar

By your standards, yes, you would justify yourself, even as they who participated in the murder of Steven.
The same thing Moses, David, The Prophets, Man from Galilee, Steven, Peter and Paul asked.
And yes, they were also well aware of The Scriptures that you are citing as the basis for your objections.

TomboyMom

No, Shesh, these are YOUR standards, not mine. By YOUR standards, it is justified to slaughter innocent little babies because they are better off in heaven. I do not accept these standards, and have clearly been decrying them throughout this thread. You are the one here who is advocating infanticide, not me. You are the one who thinks murder is O.K., as long as it is committed in Yahweh's name. In fact, you glorify and praise his name and his actions, including infanticide and genocide. I am only applying these standards to you and asking you to be consistent in your beliefs.

[quote]The same thing Moses, David, The Prophets, Man from Galilee, Steven, Peter and Paul asked.[quote] I realize that all these men also glorified the same genocidal maniac that you do. They were equally wrong.
You have no way of knowing what they were or were not aware of, or even whether they existed. Chances are that only the latter three did. In any case, your argument from authority still fails. It doesn't matter whether Jesus did or did not praise Yahweh, he's still the most genocidal tyrant in history, and your only justification for his alleged actions is that heaven is better than earth. Under that logic, murder is always justified, no matter how innocent the victim. Is that how you interpret the ten commandments?

EthnAlln

And those standards have apparently been applied by God's earthly representatives. It is reported that when the Spanish conquered Mexico, they used to baptize the babies of the heathen they conquered and then immediately dispatch them off to heaven. Again, every decent person would now say that this was a horrible crime, and that those who committed it had a choice whether to do it or not. But some of these same people will say that God had no choice when he ordered the Hebrews to do the same thing (without even caring whether their victims went to heaven or not). How can this be? Human beings have free will, but God doesn't?

And haven't I often heard that God is "the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow"? So if a massacre of innocents was OK 3000 years ago, why wouldn't it be today?

spin

He wasn't an example I gave. Try the wealthy Bertrand Russell, who didn't suffer very much at all, but lived a long healthy very productive life, that you suffer-minded people would be happy for. If you were realistic, you'd be able to find your own examples. Some of today's entertainers are healthy, wealthy and happy. Bob Hope made it to 100, died happily married and wealthy. You're apparently the sort of person who wants suffering. I can sell you a whip if you like.

Yup, that's why he gave it all away.


spin

Sheshbazzar

No,It is not by my standards, "justified to slaughter innocent little babies because they are better off in heaven".

No, I have not, "advocated infanticide", I explained my positon on an 3000+ year old infanticide recorded within The Scriptures, (The matter could have just been omitted, or purged, but was published and retained for a purpose)

What YHWH commanded at that time, He has also since commanded that we shall not do.

No, I do not, "think murder is O.K., as long as it is committed in Yahweh's name."
In that day, He as the Supreme commander over the army of Israel, gave an order that was to be obeyed by every soldier, questions could come latter, but obedience was to be immediate.
We have came a long way from those times, with much more being revealed through His prophets and His Son.
If I thought that "murder is O.K.,as long as it is committed in Yahweh's name" It would be more than likely that I would be writing this from a prison cell, men that commit murder in Yahweh's name are a very rare commodity. Members of my congregations have walked in The Name for many years now, entire lifetimes, living peacefully with all men.

What are you accusing The man from Galilee of, to claim that he is the most genocidal tyrant in history? (be certain that your accusation is not the province of another, who went forth in another name)
What are you claiming that He did?
What are "his alleged actions"?

Sheshbazzar

Bertrand Russell also experienced many things, the loss of friends and loved ones to disease and death, I'm sure if he were here, he would relate to us a few of the challenges, trials, and disappointments of his life.
You are being extremely shallow in your intellectual appreciation of what the broader applications of the word "suffer" entail.