Freethought & Rationalism Archive

kcdad · 12-07-2009, 06:37 AM

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aa5874;
Tell that to Jesus of the NT. He didn't know and he was described as God.

Where? Who described him as God? Not himself. Not his followers.

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Now, if God is an infinite Spirit, then what was the nature of his Son?

"Nature" of his son? What is your nature?

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Which Jew in Judea would deify such a character and ask him to forgive their sins and abandon the Laws of Moses? Could it be the same Peter who DENIED that he ever even knew Jesus, the offspring of the Holy Ghost?

Which indeed? Paul was a Turkish Jew, raised outside of Israel in a very Hellenized part of the Roman Empire. Neither Peter nor James approved of Paul's teachings.
Peter didn't deify Jesus... the only one of the disciples that comes close is Thomas... "My Lord and my God!!!" Peter said Jesus was The Messiah... "the anointed one"... that is, the new leader of Israel.
Being called a son of god was no big deal back then... it was a nice compliment but wasn't very unusual... all kings were sons of god, all military leaders were sons of god, all religious leaders were sons of god...
Heck The Greeks and Romans thought all of their rulers, heroes, most of their senators and rich elite folk, and even some gladiators and fish peddlers were sons of gods.

kcdad · 12-07-2009, 06:38 AM

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

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Originally Posted by kcdad

I already gave you some and I can't again...

I have no idea what you are talking about. What was it that you say you gave me?

JG

reputation

kcdad · 12-07-2009, 06:40 AM

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

So did the author of Ps. 110 and therefore other Jews besides Jesus.

Jeffrey

of course... it is a metaphor, an idiom... the right hand of a ruler is the military leader, the MIGHT of the ruler. So Jesus is being presented as the POWER of God.
REAL powerful that Jesus... dead in less than 3 hours

kcdad · 12-07-2009, 06:41 AM

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Originally Posted by aa5874

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

You keep saying that, but...

I do no think that means what you think it means....

aa5874 · 12-07-2009, 08:27 AM

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Originally Posted by kcdad

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aa5874;
Tell that to Jesus of the NT. He didn't know and he was described as God.

Where? Who described him as God? Not himself. Not his followers.

You continuously ignore information found in the NT about Jesus.

This is the so-called Jesus in John 10.30

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I and my Father are one.

John 17.5

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And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

And according to the author of John 1, the Word was God, and the Word became flesh.

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Originally Posted by kcdad

"Nature" of his son? What is your nature?

This is a writer using the name Tertullian on the nature of Jesus.

On the Flesh of Christ 1

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Let us examine our Lord's bodily substance, for about His spiritual nature all are agreed.

It is His flesh that is in question.

Its verity and quality are the points in dispute.

Did it ever exist?

Whence was it derived?

And of what kind was it?

So, based on Tertullian Jesus was Supernatural without dispute.

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Originally Posted by aa5874

Which Jew in Judea would deify such a character and ask him to forgive their sins and abandon the Laws of Moses? Could it be the same Peter who DENIED that he ever even knew Jesus, the offspring of the Holy Ghost?

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Originally Posted by kcdad

Which indeed? Paul was a Turkish Jew, raised outside of Israel in a very Hellenized part of the Roman Empire. Neither Peter nor James approved of Paul's teachings.
Peter didn't deify Jesus... the only one of the disciples that comes close is Thomas... "My Lord and my God!!!" Peter said Jesus was The Messiah... "the anointed one"... that is, the new leader of Israel.

Are you implying that the Jesus of Peter was NOT the offspring of the Holy Ghost of God who walked on water, witnesses by the very Peter, who transfigured, again seen by Peter, and was resurrected and ascended through the clouds?

The NT is about the Son of God, the offspring of the Holy Ghost of God who had disciples one of whom was called Peter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

Being called a son of god was no big deal back then... it was a nice compliment but wasn't very unusual... all kings were sons of god, all military leaders were sons of god, all religious leaders were sons of god...
Heck The Greeks and Romans thought all of their rulers, heroes, most of their senators and rich elite folk, and even some gladiators and fish peddlers were sons of gods.

So, explain why in the NT JESUS was accused of blasphemy for saying he was the Son of God?

Based on Philo, Jews did not worship men as gods in the 1st century. In "On the Embassy to Gaius" even Gaius the Emperor wrote that the Jews were the only nation on the face of the earth that did not deify him.

"On the Embassy to Gaius" 35

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Your loyal and excellent fellow citizens, the only nation of men upon the whole face of the earth by whom Gaius is not esteemed to be a god, appear now to be even desiring to plot my death in their obstinate disobedience, for when I commanded my statue in the character of Jupiter to be erected in their temple, they raised the whole of their people, and quitted the city and the whole country in a body, under pretence of addressing a petition to me....

See http://www.earlychristianwritings.com

It would appear that once Jesus actually lived in Judea and was a Jew, his chances of being deified would virtually be ZERO.

It would also seem that if Jesus did actually live and was crucified after being deemed a blasphemer, then his disciples, Paul or Stephen would have not have been able to FREELY continue to spread blasphemy and lies about Jesus claiming that he was the Son of God and was raised from the dead with the ability to forgive sin and to abandon the Laws of Moses while the Temple was still standing.

Based on the NT, Peter had denied any association with Jesus, the disciples were hiding in fear of the Jews and the body of Jesus had vanished.

How did the disciples manage to continue to spread the blasphemy and lies about Jesus for decades in Judea?

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition. If Jesus was human, the Jews would not have deified him.

It would appear that Jesus was just a story INVENTED well away from Judea and backdated.

Toto · 12-07-2009, 09:29 AM

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Originally Posted by kcdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

I have no idea what you are talking about. What was it that you say you gave me?

JG

reputation

The Reputation function is disabled for most posters here. :huh:

Jeffrey Gibson · 12-07-2009, 12:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Toto

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Originally Posted by kcdad

reputation

The Reputation function is disabled for most posters here. :huh:

What is the "reputation function" and how does one accessit?

Jeffrey

kcdad · 12-07-2009, 01:30 PM

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Originally Posted by aa5874

If Jesus was human, the Jews would not have deified him.

The "Jews" didn't deify him, the Romans did.

kcdad · 12-07-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

The Reputation function is disabled for most posters here. :huh:

What is the "reputation function" and how does one accessit?

Jeffrey

below the posters name there is a little white "tree" (it is actually a scale I think)

kcdad · 12-07-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

You continuously ignore information found in the NT about Jesus.

This is the so-called Jesus in John 10.30

John 17.5

And according to the author of John 1, the Word was God, and the Word became flesh.

according to according to according to... do you believe everything you read?

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