FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-14-2012, 09:18 PM   #111
Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: the fringe of the caribbean
Posts: 18,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApostateAbe View Post
.... It doesn't actually matter if Paul mentioned it a "helluva a lot" or only once. The point is that he mentioned it and it does NOT come from the story of Jesus ben Ananias! What part of the gospel story actually originated from Jesus ben Ananias? Even less than before, and you didn't have much to begin with....
Of course it matter whether Paul mentioned it a "helluva a lot" or only once because if he did NOT mention it a "helluva a lot" then YOUR assertion was completely erroneous and mis-leading.

Your integrity is at stake if you make statements when you know that they are in error.

Now, what part of the Gospel of Abe is from the Pauline writings???

Jesus of Nazareth is NOT from the Pauline writings.

Jesus of Nazareth Baptized by John is NOT from the Pauline writings.

The trial of Jesus of Nazareth by Pilate is NOT from the Pauline writings.

You really don't need the Pauline writings for YOUR Apocalyptic Jesus.


It is clear that the Jesus story could have been based on Jesus the Son of Ananus in Wars of the Jews the very same way your Apocalyptic Jesus is based on the Bible and did things that are NOT found in the Canon.
aa5874 is offline  
Old 06-14-2012, 09:53 PM   #112
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Auburn ca
Posts: 4,269
Default

Quote:
where did the gospel authors get the idea of crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, if not from Paul?
oral tradition more then paul
outhouse is offline  
Old 06-14-2012, 11:04 PM   #113
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dixon CA
Posts: 1,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
It proves that the original Passion Narrative was not copied from Josephus' portrayal of Jesus Ananias. The simple PN in gJohn helps disprove MJ.
How do you know this is the original PN? How can it "disprove" something when the hypothesis that it is the original has not been "proved?"
Since at least December I have been daring anyone here to deal with my Passion Narrative developed in

Gospel Eyewitnesses Posts 526, 534
No particular effort required--one refutation of me would be to name one scholar who has disproven Teeple's source-criticism of gJohn. I could not find one, and it looks like no one else has either. Please read these posts #526 and #534 before you claim that my Passion Narrative in Falling Dominoes
#243 is not the closest there is to the original. If so it does not seem like something (non-supernatural) worth faking for later inclusion in myths. Thus it gives us HJ.
Adam is offline  
Old 06-14-2012, 11:16 PM   #114
Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: the fringe of the caribbean
Posts: 18,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApostateAbe View Post
You say, "Paul's Jesus is not the Jesus of the synoptics." But you also think that Peter and James were integrated into the gospel accounts. Maybe I don't get your meaning, or else this is going much deeper into the crazy zone. What exactly is the relationship between Paul's Jesus and Jesus of the synoptics? For example, where did the gospel authors get the idea of crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, if not from Paul? A creative reading of Josephus on Jesus ben Ananias, and the point that Paul also believed in a Jesus who was crucified and resurrected is just a coincidence?
Well, where did the authors of gMatthew and gLuke get the idea that the Mother of Jesus was withchild of the Holy Ghost??

It did NOT come from the Pauline writings.

Where did the author of Mark get the idea that Jesus WALKED on water and transfigured??

It was NOT from the Pauline writings.

Where did the author of Mark get the idea that Jesus INSTANTLY healed incurable diseases with Spit, fed 9000, and cursed a fig tree so that it DIED from the roots???

It was NOT the Pauline writings.

The very claim that the author of the gospel used the Pauline writings SHOWS that the Jesus story could have been derived from Wars of the Jews.

Once you argue that the Gospel authors EMBELLISHED the Jesus story in Pauline writings then it can argued that the Gospel authors EMBELLISHED the story of Jesus the Son of Ananus in Wars of the Jews.

The very Gospel of Abe show an EMBELLISHED Manipulated Jesus story NOT found anywhere in any sources of antiquity.

The authors of the Gospel could have done the very same thing in antiquity.
aa5874 is offline  
Old 06-15-2012, 05:36 AM   #115
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,579
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aa5874 View Post
Absence of Evidence MAY be evidence of Absence since ALL things Non-existing have NO evidence of existing.

In Court trials People are EXONERATED when they can show ABSENCE of evidence that they commited a crime.

In effect if the Evidence does NOT exist then you MUST acquit.
If there is no evidence there is no trial. In a criminal case, what is to be decided is whether on the existing evidence presented by the prosecution, the accused is convicted of the crime(s) beyond reasonable doubt.

Best,
Jiri
Solo is offline  
Old 06-15-2012, 07:33 AM   #116
Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: the fringe of the caribbean
Posts: 18,988
Default

Can someone please tell ApostateAbe that he has PROVEN without a reasonable doubt that stories of Jesus could be made up WITHOUT an actual real Jesus.

The Gospel of Abe, a story of Jesus, was INVENTED by ApostateAbe WITHOUT knowing an actual Jesus.

"The Gospel of Abe" was partially DERIVED from the NT Canon, a source of fiction, and Abe, a source of Imagination.

The very authors of the Jesus stories in the Canon did STATE and show that their Jesus was DERIVED from the OT which is found BOLTED to the NT.

The Jesus of the Canon was INVENTED from the OT, a source of fiction, and the authors, sources of Imagination.

The Jesus of the Pauline writings were INVENTED from Scriptures and Pauline fabrications called revelations.

The Jesus of ApostateAbe is NO different 1800 years later.

MJers have been EXONERATED by the GOOD NEWS from Abe.

Jesus could have been INVENTED from written sources and Imagination.

The DATED evidence supports the claim that Jesus was indeed INVENTED.

ApostateAbe and outhouse have invented their Jesus with sources of fiction just like the author of gMatthew---that author claimed his Jesus RODE TWO ASSES simultaneously because it was Predicted in the OT. See Matthew 21.7.
aa5874 is offline  
Old 06-15-2012, 07:53 AM   #117
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aa5874 View Post
Can someone please tell ApostateAbe that he has PROVEN without a reasonable doubt that stories of Jesus could be made up WITHOUT an actual real Jesus.

The Gospel of Abe, a story of Jesus, was INVENTED by ApostateAbe WITHOUT knowing an actual Jesus.

"The Gospel of Abe" was partially DERIVED from the NT Canon, a source of fiction, and Abe, a source of Imagination.

The very authors of the Jesus stories in the Canon did STATE and show that their Jesus was DERIVED the OT which is found BOLTED to the NT.

The Jesus of the Canon was INVENTED from the OT, a source of fiction, and the authors, sources of Imagination.

The Jesus of the Pauline writings were INVENTED from Scriptures and Pauline fabrications called revelations.

The Jesus of ApostateAbe is NO different 1800 years later.

MJers have been EXONERATED by the GOOD NEWS from Abe.

Jesus could have been INVENTED from written sources and Imagination.

The DATED evidence supports the claim that Jesus was indeed INVENTED.

ApostateAbe and outhouse have invented their Jesus with sources of fiction just like the author of gMatthew---that author claimed his Jesus RODE TWO ASSES simultaneously because it was Predicted in the OT. See Matthew 21.7.
You just told him. I thought you did a good enough job of it.
Grog is offline  
Old 06-15-2012, 08:21 AM   #118
Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: the fringe of the caribbean
Posts: 18,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aa5874 View Post
The DATED evidence supports the claim that Jesus was indeed INVENTED.

ApostateAbe and outhouse have invented their Jesus with sources of fiction just like the author of gMatthew---that author claimed his Jesus RODE TWO ASSES simultaneously because it was Predicted in the OT. See Matthew 21.7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog View Post
You just told him. I thought you did a good enough job of it.
Actually it is the EVIDENCE from antiquity that matters.

It was PREDICTED that Jesus would simultaneously RIDE MULTIPLE ASSES based on gMatthew.

ApostateAbe and outhouse don't seem to know that.

Jesus was NOT an Apocalyptic preacher or a Tax violator.

Jesus was KING when he RODE people's ASSES.


Zechariah 9:9 KJV
Quote:
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout , O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation ; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Matthew 21:5 KJV
Quote:
Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold , thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
The OT is BOLTED to the NT--Jesus is going to RIDE people's ASSES.
aa5874 is offline  
Old 06-15-2012, 08:35 AM   #119
Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: MT
Posts: 10,656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog View Post
You just told him. I thought you did a good enough job of it.
I don't debate aa5874, so if he says anything you would like me to respond to, then please repeat it.
ApostateAbe is offline  
Old 06-15-2012, 08:51 AM   #120
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,095
Default

It's worth noting how the gospel relied on a source that totally misunderstood the style of writing of the prophecy of Zechariah. It doesn't mean that the messiah would ride on two animals simultaneously, but rather that he would ride on a single animal, specifically the offspring of a donkey rather than an adult donkey (the general and the specific).
Duvduv is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:59 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.