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Old 09-30-2009, 10:39 AM   #61
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So, by your way of thinking... I'm worshipping my bible as an idol because I find it flawless?

Basically. Perfection is god's and god's only. Not some book. Ascribing perfection to something is an admission that you worship it.
But this book came from a perfect being. So why would it contain errors if the author is flawless?
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:46 AM   #62
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Basically. Perfection is god's and god's only. Not some book. Ascribing perfection to something is an admission that you worship it.
But this book came from a perfect being. So why would it contain errors if the author is flawless?
The book is a collection of human writings, and you have done nothing to prove otherwise.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:54 AM   #63
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:constern01: Are you not a Christian Hymny? nor a member of the Christian Church?
I'm not a member of a Church. I used to be a member of the Missionary Christian Alliance. But the more I understood the word of God, the more I looked into the church and noticed wooden idols of Jesus all around the room. God struck down the pagans for this, so why are Christians any different? Secondly, I believe many modern Christians are very, very judgemental. They are too busy judging people rather than studying the word of God.
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Not a good answer Hymny.
I asked you if you were a Christian as you said "Christian Churches worship graven images and wooden idols.
I didn't ask you if you were a member of any particular denomination, I asked you if you were a member of THE Christian Church.
Do you know what that is Hymny? Better get out your Bible and look it up.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:14 AM   #64
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Basically. Perfection is god's and god's only. Not some book. Ascribing perfection to something is an admission that you worship it.
But this book came from a perfect being. So why would it contain errors if the author is flawless?
Really? So a "pefect being" haphazardly cobbled together the documents of the Canaanites who worshipped El (Elohists) above all other gods, the Canaanites who worshipped YHWH (Jahwists) above all other gods, the Priestly accounts and Deuteronomists accounts? Do you know that the Jews never "escaped" from Egypt, and that the Exodus story is a tale told by the returning Babylonian exiles? That the returning exiles wrote the book of Deuteronomy around 500 BCE to enforce monotheism on the previously polytheistic Jews? Were the Jews who worshipped YHWH and his consort Asarah using imperfect scriptures? These returning exiles also did a lot of editorial gymnastics of the Torah to fuse El and YHWH.

Did this perfect being also write the Septuagint c. 280 BCE? What about the differences between the Septuagint and the Masoretic text? Which one is the more perfect one?

Did this perfect being allow Antiochus IV to desecrate the temple with the abomination causing desolation which sparked a Jewish revolt in 167 BCE, which led to the ousting of the previous high priest and the installation of the Hasmoneans? And that the previous high priestly line was revered by the Dead Sea Scrolls community? Which group of holy books is more perfect: the Masoretic Text, the Septuagint, or the Dead Sea Scrolls?

What about the Samaritan Pentateuch that was redacted once the Hasmonean King destroyed the Samaritan temple? Which is more perfect now? The Samaritan Pentateuch, the Septuagint, the Dead Sea Scrolls, or the Masoretic text? They are all different.

Is 1 Maccabees perfect? What about 2 Maccabees?

Did this perfect being allow Paul's seven authentic letters to be interpolated? Which version of Paul's letters were perfect? Marcion's ten epistles in the first New Testament in record that he compiled in 140 CE or the later Catholic church's Pauline epistles? Was this perfect being not content with his perfect version of Mark and allowed the authors of Luke and Matthew to edit Mark? Which is more perfect now? Mark, Matthew, or Luke? Is Thomas perfect too? What about the Egerton gospel? Was that one perfect too?

Was the Matthew used by the Ebionites perfect? They used the Masoretic text as their source. What about the Matthew used by the proto-Catholics? They used the Septuagint as their source.

Was the gospel of Peter once perfect but it's now no longer perfect? Early Christians considered it canon but it later fell out of favor. Can perfection be taken away? What about the Apocalypse of Peter?

Was this perfect being not content with the first perfect layer of the gospel of John? What about the second perfect layer? What about the third perfect layer? You would think a perfect being would get it right the first time.

What happened to Justin Martyr's "Memoirs"? Was it not perfect enough? What about Tatians subsequent "Diatessaron"? Why did the four gospels only get ther titles in 180 CE? Were they not perfect when they were written anonymously? Was the gospel used by Basilides not perfect? He said his was from a disciple and interpreter of Peter named Glaukias. On the other hand, Papias said that Mark was a disciple and interpreter of Peter. Who was right?

What about the Acts of Pilate? Justin used information in his "Memoirs" that is also found in the Acts of Pilate and no "canonical" gospels. What about the Acts of Thomas? The Acts of the Twelve? The Acts of Peter and Paul? The Acts of Barnabas? Acts of John? Acts of Philip? Christians considered these canon at different points in history. Were they all perfect or not?

What about the Assumption of Moses that the epistle of Jude references? Is A. of Moses perfect too? What about the Didache? Or the Ascension of Isaiah? The Book of Tobit? Christians considered these canon too.

Which version of the Bible is perfect? The New Revised Standard Version? The New International Version? The King James Version? The New King James Version? Young's Literal Translation? Darby's? Wycleff's?
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:24 AM   #65
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How long did it take the form the universe?
It's been an ongoing process for the past 13.7 billion years.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:32 AM   #66
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How long did it take the form the universe?
It's been an ongoing process for the past 13.7 billion years.
No, it hasn't. God rested on the 7th Day. "Rested" in ancient Hebrew text actually means, "done creating."

Science can travel as far as they desire, and they will keep finding stars, the new stars we discover are a part of God creation in motion to maintain our constellation.

God is brilliant. Look into the midnight sky and ask yourself, how did this happen with no cause or reason? That is absurd!
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:34 AM   #67
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I sense a handwave in my future.

I was the leader of evangelical Christian ministry for many years, delivered messages from the pulpit, and studied theology and apologetics for much longer than that, I doubt you have anything to say that I not only haven't heard already, but also preached to others when I was in the ministry.
Christian Churches worship graven images and wooden idols.. That is blatantly going against the Law of God. So, just because you were a leader of a Church doesn't mean anything to me.

If you studied as much as you claim, then you would know God is alive and his word is true and accurate.

No true Disciple of Christ walks away from His Shepherd.
What, exactly, do you follow in the Bible?

You say you left the church because they violated this commandment, but do you "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy"? Do you follow the dietary laws in the Bible? What about celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles or the Day of Atonement?

Just trying to figure out where you're coming from.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:42 AM   #68
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What, exactly, do you follow in the Bible?
I follow the Laws of God.

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You say you left the church because they violated this commandment,
I refuse to worship a wooden idol of Jesus.

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but do you "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy"?
I'm usually online arguing with you atheists.. I'm doing the work of the LORD on the Sabbath. What better way to follow my Shepherd than by teaching atheists that God is love, and he does exist?

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Do you follow the dietary laws in the Bible?
Hmm? I eat bacon? But I do not sea food.

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What about celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles or the Day of Atonement?
No.

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Just trying to figure out where you're coming from.
I see wickedness in a church when I see a 25 foot statue of my Jesus looking down upon me. I see blasphemy. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and they are right. I will let God decide.

If God makes my bed in Hell, then I shall lay my head down.
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:06 PM   #69
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Is there evidence of a global flood split, to be moved to EC Forum
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:07 PM   #70
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I like you, Hymn. You have fire. I really hope you stick around and post more on this in the future.
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