jennylynn

Hello, I know this may sound like a dumb question but the other day me and my friend got into a fight on whether or not someobody has to go to church if they want to be faithful to God? Also, how do you know if you've done enough good to be with God? Thank You

Plognark

Hmm. This seems like a bit of an odd place to ask such a question

I would wager that it depends on the denomination.

There's the Faith vs. works dispute and the value or necessity of either, the nature of original sin and salvation, etc.

That's just from a Christian perspective. If you want to add other religions into the mix it gets a whole lot more complicated than it already is.

Personally, I don't think the creator of the universe, if he even exists, is really going to care whether someone goes to church or not. Such notions seem laughably egocentric.


And then you've got to define what is good, what's evil, and the degree of grey between the two. Is homosexuality evil? Is eating shrimp evil? Is Blasphemy evil? Blasphemy against who? Does any of it even matter?

I think there's enough value in being a "good" person on its own merit without having to worry about what some random person with a religious agenda thinks you ought to be or do. Figuring that out can be tough, but life would be pretty boring if understanding morality and what is "good" were easy.

Welcome to the forums, btw :wave:

David Vestal

You're asking this in an secular forum. Most of us don't believe in god.

Religions disagree on the necessity of church attendance. Most would probably consider it advisable, but not necessarily essential. I'm guessing, though.

Religions also disagree on the means by which salvation is achieved, so there isn't a one-size-fits-all answer for your last question.

Life's a lot better without religion, so I recommend giving it a try. If you enjoy reading, browse the library here at infidels.org. You may find it eye-opening.

Agemegos

It is not a dumb question at all. It is one of the most important questions that has been asked since the invention of printing, and here is the answer:

There is no God. There are no gods. So you can always know that you aren't good with God, no matter how much you do, or what. But of course this matters no more than not being good with Amaterasu, Papa Legba, or the Tooth Fairy.

You can skip church with complete impunity, except against the petty nastiness of your religious neighbours. The only person who will suffer is that canting parasite, your minister/pastor/priest.

Alter

That's a great question. The answer, of course, is that no one can ever know. That's becuase "god", who supposedly talked to everyone thousands of years ago, has gone silent since then. Well, except for the televangelists who want your money, of course. THEY say god speaks directly to them, but we don't really believe them, do we? After all, they come up with different things for different guys. The guy who hates Muslims says god told him Muslims are evil. But a Muslim preacher says god told him Christians are evil. Why woudl god give 2 different stories? You have to conclude that they are BOTH making it up. And their brand of religion is different from that 100 years ago, or 500 years ago. Why does the story keep changing?

The sad truth is, we have no way of knowing if those guys from a few thousand years ago weren't just the televangelists of their time, telling stories about god speaking to them to gain power or money. Maybe they were ALL making it up, making up a god to replace the things they didn't understand.

The Old Testament (supposedly written by god) was really picky about homosexuality. Yet "god's son", Jesus, doesn't say a SINGLE WORD about it. If it was so bad, why didn't Jesus mention it? Hmmm... Maybe Jesus was a televangelist, too. Nice fellow, said a lot of nice things, but maybe another televangelist. Or just a revolutionary, he didn't get rich off the whole thing. A martyred revolutionary, that's nice. Doesn't mean he was god, but he certainly had some strong convictions about how to live. Some good ideas.

***************************

Here's a wager for you: if you're a good person, and do good things, and don't do really bad things, then if there WAS a god, I'm sure he or she would have no problem inviting you to heaven. If god conditioned heaven on ACCEPTANCE and WORSHIP, well, he wouldn't be god, would he? He'd be more like a jealous, vain king, demanding recognition and adulation, and sending those who didn't profess loyalty to the dungeon of torture, even if they were little childdren! *I* certainly wouldn't want to go to a heaven run by that guy. Sounds more like hell to me.

If there WAS a god, I'd assume all good people would be invited into a place like heaven, regardless of something silly like whether there is a Holy Ghost or whether Mohammed was divine or whether you worship Krishna or Shiva. So simply be good, that's all you can do.

But does there have to be a god? If you live a good life, what you believe is irrelevant to the question of heaven or hell. Good people will go to heaven, if it exists. But if you live your life assuming that HEAVEN DOESN'T EXIST, how does that change how you will act here on earth?

(1) You won't be afraid of being dead. There's no hell to fear.

(2) You'll try to do all the things you can while you're here on this earth.

(3) You'll value your own life and the lives of others.

Not so bad. So living WITHOUT the concept of god or heaven makes you do good things now. Maybe it's worth a try.

But whatever you do, keep being good.

Chili

Hello jenny, as you can see from these replies these people here don't know any God so they can't really be faithful to a God.

In Catholicism we do not know God either but we get baptized so we might get to know God. In the mean time we go to Church and do all those things that Catholics do just because those are the things that Catholics do. In that sense are we part of the flock, you can say, but really is more like a highway to heaven where we can just be like the real God and no longer have to go anywhere or do anything to please anybody.

seebs

This is a strange place to answer this.

Anyway, no, you do not have to go to church, although many people find it edifying. As to "done enough", I think this presupposes a false model of justification. It is not entirely meaningful to speak of "doing enough"; in particular, if you can do more, you probably haven't done enough.

But it's really not about the reward. The question is not "how many hungry people must I feed for God to like me"; the question is "how can I stop when there are still more people hungry?"

Splarnst

If you're going to answer from a Catholic perspective, then you have to give her the complete answer:

You have to attend Mass every holy day of obligation, which includes every Sunday for the rest of your life, special days like Christmas and All Saints Day, plus a handful of others depending on what country you live in. It has to be a Catholic Mass, not some heretical group. If you miss even one without a good excuse (like you were really sick) then you commit a mortal sin, which unrepented and unconfessed before you die, and God will toss you in a lake of fire for all eternity. Plus you have to avoid every other mortal sin in a long list, or your attending Mass will be completely worthless. The end.

Alethias

jennylynn,

I noticed this is your first post here. Welcome! :wave:

Nope. You don't have to go to church.

I should probably point out to you that i'm an ex-christian atheist, and that probably influences my opinion.

Certain christians believe that going to church would make you a better person. I disagree. Having good values and living by those values makes you a good person, regardless of whether or not you go to church.

SoT

Plognark

Yeah, it seems really weird to phrase it in such a way: "Have I done enough good in my life to get on God's good side."

I think that phrasing completely misses the point, and one of the aspects found in many religions that I find positive. If only more people understood it.

This is an unusually diverse forum, so now that I've thought about it a bit, this may be one of the best places to ask. There aren't a lot of forums where you can get atheist, Catholic, and Liberal Christian opinions (and others) on such topics