Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Celsus · 03-07-2004, 07:50 PM

My review of Bill Dever is now up, here. Comments welcome, I am in an evil mood.

Quote:

This review is dedicated to those enamoured by William G. Dever's two recent books, What did the biblical writers know & When did they know it? (2001) and Who were the Early Israelites and Where did they come from? (2003). In polemical fashion, Dever attacks the minimalists and those who would lend credence to them (that is, Israel Finkelstein). In the first book, he argues that the minimalists (Davies, Whitelam, Lemche, Coote, Thompson, Ahlstrom, Grabbe, etc.) are "nihilists", "postmodernists", "deconstructionists", "skeptics", "revisionists", and so forth (and nearly "anti-Semitic"), saying that they believe that they believe no history is possible. He of course, argues that actually archaeology can shed light on the biblical record and affirm several basic facts (primarily, that historical Israel with real Israelites did exist at the time the books of Samuel and Kings say it did). In the second, he has toned down slightly, delivering a summary of archaeological evidence for the material culture of "proto-Israelites" and also giving a broad introduction and critique of several alternatives. He saves his vitriol for Finkelstein, and summarises with reasons why the Bible is typologically true (in the sense of Jews sharing a Passover heritage the way Americans "share" a Thanksgiving heritage).

I have no time to deal with all the contents of the books, but wish to examine a few examples to show why we need not pay attention to his propaganda, and why he should stick to his work instead. I have also been purposely polemical in return, since confident arrogance seems to be the method of the day in this debate. In rebuttal, I give several examples that clearly illustrate the straw-manning he is engaging in.

Celsus · 03-08-2004, 09:50 PM

Anyone? I thought quite a lot of people here like Dever...

Joel

Dark Jedi · 03-09-2004, 07:07 AM

bob Dever? as in Gilligan?

Oh, that's Denver, not Dever. No idea who your guy is.

Celsus · 03-09-2004, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dark Jedi
Oh, that's Denver, not Dever. No idea who your guy is.

In that case, pay no attention to my blather and go out and buy/read his books.

Joel

Toto · 03-10-2004, 12:16 AM

I think that Apikorus was a Dever fan, but I haven't seem him around lately.

Doctor X · 03-10-2004, 12:21 AM

It convinced me to pass on his work.

I am not persuaded by polemics.

--J.D.

Postcard73 · 03-10-2004, 11:14 AM

Quote:

show why we need not pay attention to his propaganda, and why he should stick to his work instead.

I read Who Were the Early Israelites a couple months ago and found it pretty interesting. I agree that he needs to focus on the arguments and lay off the comments about his peers, but I thought the book was still worth reading. I've only recently gotten interested in biblical archaeology so I unfortunately don't have a lot of insight. Surely somebody else around here can provide more of a response. I read the book because I saw other people talk about it in this forum.

Celsus · 03-10-2004, 02:23 PM

Toto: I suggest we let Apikorus speak for himself. He was the first one to make me consider the minimalists.

Doctor X & Postcard73: I still say that Dever has an important contribution to make, even if it is clouded by his rhetoric. Both the books he's come out with recently are excellent if you ignore everything he has to say about the minimalists, and the rhetoric against Finkelstein (that leaves about 1/3rd of the material, probably). It was not the spirit of my review to turn people away from reading him: it was addressed to those who've read him and therefore dismissed minimalists out of hand, most of whom I've encountered here at II over the last few years.

Hold steady, we shall see more of him in a few minutes when I get Intro III up.

Joel

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03-08-2004, 09:50 PM	#2
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	Anyone? I thought quite a lot of people here like Dever... Joel

03-09-2004, 07:07 AM	#3
Dark Jedi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 4,666	bob Dever? as in Gilligan? Oh, that's Denver, not Dever. No idea who your guy is.

03-10-2004, 12:16 AM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I think that Apikorus was a Dever fan, but I haven't seem him around lately.

03-10-2004, 12:21 AM	#6
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	It convinced me to pass on his work. I am not persuaded by polemics. --J.D.

03-10-2004, 02:23 PM	#8
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	Toto: I suggest we let Apikorus speak for himself. He was the first one to make me consider the minimalists. Doctor X & Postcard73: I still say that Dever has an important contribution to make, even if it is clouded by his rhetoric. Both the books he's come out with recently are excellent if you ignore everything he has to say about the minimalists, and the rhetoric against Finkelstein (that leaves about 1/3rd of the material, probably). It was not the spirit of my review to turn people away from reading him: it was addressed to those who've read him and therefore dismissed minimalists out of hand, most of whom I've encountered here at II over the last few years. Hold steady, we shall see more of him in a few minutes when I get Intro III up. Joel

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