Toto

Thousands of years of controlled, empirical scientific testing have failed to show any evidence of the supernatural. Randi has a $1 million challenge to anyone who can prove the existence of any supernatural power, and no one has collected the prize - there are people who have tried, but they turned out to be mistaken and unable to pass tests that they agreed would show their powers.

At this point, we are justified in rejecting the existence of the supernatural with 99.99999...% probability.

And certainly we would require better evidence than ancient corrupted documents.

aa5874

How long did it take mankind to accept that the earth revolve around the sun?? More than 2000 years.

If people in authority do NOT show or explain to the ordinary man that the earth revolves around the sun or if they ridicule those who can show or explain the earth revolves around the sun then mankind would continue to claim the earth is stationary.

When I was a believer NO-ONE in authority told me about the writings of Josephus, Philo, Suetonius, Tacitus, Justin Martyr, Aristides, Theophilus of Antioch, Athenagoras, Minucius Felix, Arnobius, Ephraim the Syrian, Julian the Emperor and the Short gMark.

No-one told me that NO manuscripts of Jesus, the disciples and Paul have ever been found and dated to the 1st century and before c 70 CE.

Once Mankind know the evidence they will simply REJECT the Canon just as they REJECT the stationary earth.

Did not mankind REJECT the Flat Stationary Earth after they got the DATA from Copernicus, Galileo and others??

Well, it is inevitable that Mankind will REJECT the Canon after they Get the DATA from Josephus, Philo, Tacitus, Suetonius, Justin Martyr, Aristides, Theophilus, Athenagoras, Minucius Felix, Arnobius, Ehpraim the Syrian, Julian the Emperor and the Short gMark.

It is of not much significance whether 10% of people are critical thinkers because if the people in authority OPENLY REJECT the NT Canon virtually everybody under their authority would also REJECT it.

We have Scholars and Authorities of the Church who REFUSE to reject the Canon although they know that the DATA shows the NT Canon is NOT history.

It was the Church that placed Galileo under house arrest because they did NOT want Mankind to see or hear of the DATA.

Well, those days are done.

Everbody can see the DATA-----The Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century and the short gMark PREDATES all writings of the NT Canon.

I understand that you applaud what I am doing but I am not doing this for applause.

I am presenting the DATA so that Mankind will know and understand that the NT Canon is NOT history.

The NT Canon is historically and chronologically bogus based on the Existing DATA.

Chili

Only a stargazer would say that the earth evolves around the sun and he would also say that the world is round while looking at the planet earth.

. . . until he finds himself and then agrees that he is the centre of the universe and is in charge of his own destiny, and here then, the world is very flat again while for hom itself it is very round.

aa5874

My argument is SOLID and cannot be overturned--the Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century.

In "Did Jesus Exist?" page 23, Ehrman ADMITTED that there are NT manuscripts but they are dated NO earlier than the 2nd century.

So, we have Physical Proof ONLY from the 2nd century and later---but NO physical proof of any 1st century writings.

The reason we have NO Physical Proof from the 1st century is because there was NEVER any physical proof in the first place.

It is extremely important that we understand that Ehrman claimed there was PHYSICAL PROOF from the 2nd century of the Jesus story.

So, regardless of what people Believe, ONLY one argument has Physical Proof.

This is the argument that has PHYSICAL PROOF--the Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century.

This is Ehrman in "Did Jesus Exist?" page 23 There is NO physical proof of Jesus, the Jesus stories, Paul and the Pauline Epistles in the 1st century and before c 70 CE.

Essentially, Scholars and Historians KNOW there is NO Physical Proof for Jesus, the disciples and Paul in the 1st century.

My argument is SOLID and CANNOT be overturned because it is supported by Physical Proof.

See Bart Ehrman's "Did Jesus Exist? page 23.

The Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century--"we have Physical proof".

Sheshbazzar

Well I was rather intending that you pick a "VERSE". But what the hell....

Where is your proof that Long gMark was not written first? Or that your so called 'short' gMark didn't start as nothing more than a codex that was missing its last page?

All of the other Gospels indicate an awareness of the content of the 'Long' Gospel of Mark. None show any awareness of the existence of any 'short' gMark.
There is not a single early Christian apologetic witness to any such thing as a 'short' Gospel of Mark.
Every early witness indicates teaching all men the message of the resurrection and of salvation through Jebus as is taught in 'long' gMark, -and in every other Gospel.

The DOCUMENTED and DATED evidence therefore clearly supports that the 'Long' and complete gMark was the one that was known to these Gospel writers and the apologists of the early Church.

TedM

One possibility is that the supernatural is structured so that it cannot be proven, or 'made' to happen. As such it may always be relegated to a personal experience or a non-repeatable unexplained event. IF that is the case then those experiments fall short in demonstrating the existence because science itself would fall short. If that is the case there is no justification for putting any percentage on the probability of the existence or non-existence of the supernatural. That's why it is a statement of belief--the corollary is a belief that science would be able to measure supernatural events (if they happened).

aa5874

You have NO idea what 'textual variants' means.

Please, you are embarrassing yourself. Please do some research.

The differences in the verses beteween the short and LongMark 16 are classified as textual variants

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual...Gospel_of_Mark

Sheshbazzar

Yeah that really makes sense. Gawd really really seriously wants men to believe in him so that he can'save' them from himself, .....but hides every time anyone looks for the evidence that he exists.
What's wrong with this picture?

TedM

Your last statement is a statement of belief. It is not a statement of fact because you are not able to go back to the first century and examine the evidence to see if such writings were in existence.


Yet these writings refer to events that happened in the prior century, so what proof do you have that the events did not happen? It is your BELIEF that prior documents did not exist. It is your BELIEF that the events described were in no way reflective of any actual history. Your argument is not grounded just in the lack of 'physical proof'. It is grounded in BELIEFs that cannot be proven.

TedM

Or maybe he really is a God of 'faith' and abhors the idea that people require any more evidence than: Our universe, life, desire for peace within, our longing for justice, etc..

IF you don't like that, try these: Maybe he DOESN'T seriously want men to believe in him. Maybe he isn't interested in 'saving' man. Or, maybe he truly has only 'called' those who are evolved to appreciate Him.

Or maybe I wasn't talking specifically about 'God' at all: I was talking about supernatural events.