James Brown

Curious. So when Moses disobeys Jehovah's order by hitting a rock instead of just talking at it, he doesn't get to go into the Occupied Territory. But when he disobeys another order and commits mass genocide, Jehovah is silent. This Jehovah of yours has strange priorities. "Hitting rock--bad. Killing children--eh, who cares?" Once again, the Argument from Evil comes into play.

What do you think 'smite' means, defeat them in local elections? As someone else posted, 'to smite' means 'to kill.' Given that Jehovah killed children all the time by plague, fire, earthquake, and flood, Moses was simply living up to Jehovah's example.

Amaleq13

What does God's apparent failure to reprimand Moses for taking his order to kill to such an extreme tell us about God?



human: A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.

Redefining the meaning of a word so that the conclusion one desires is assumed in the definition is, by definition, circular reasoning.

Fr.Andrew

(Fr Andrew): God created Moses with the full knowledge that he would order these atrocities. It tells us that much about Him.
With respect to the OP:
What a Guy!

James Brown

The God of the NT overturns the God of the OT? So God has amended his policies after a couple of thousand years?

Keep in mind that ancient Hebrews had little to no conception of an afterlife, particularly for unbelievers. They only picked this up from other cultures much later. So when a Hebrew soldier plunged his sword into a child's belly, that was the end of the child. But in the NT, we learn that this loving God actually sends the souls of unbelievers to fiery damnation to burn forever.

I wonder what Satan would do were he in charge?

This was not original to Jesus. He was repeating a Jewish principle:

Again, a Judaic principle, not original to the author of 1 John:

If these Hebrews were so mindlessly brutal before God sauntered along and decided to teach them civility over the course of thousands of years, then why did Hebrews rebuke Moses for murdering an Egyptian taskmaster? (Exodus 2:11-15)

spin

Oh, so every human in the bible is a murderer? Maybe you are being metaphorical.

The "you" in what I said obviously didn't relate to you, Gamera: it's called the impersonal form. I guess that was wishful thinking on your (Gamera's) part. Who created the murderers? Straight from the text. You (Gamera) don't want to deal with problems though, just obfuscate them.


spin

EthnAlln

I don't think the nations in the "biblical lineage" (ancient Jews, modern Christians) are more humane than others. Read the plays of Euripides (unless you think those are also Christian interpolations), especially "The Trojan Women," which was written for the 90th Olympiad (416 BCE---we have ancient sources that confirm the date) and could well be a protest against the Athenian atrocities of the time. It makes even modern audiences weep.

And how much humanity have even Christians shown? The crusaders adhered very strictly to the model from the book of Joshua when they conquered Jerusalem. The medieval Christian monarchs and the Inquisition used the same barbaric tortures that modern Communists have used. Even in relatively humane England a few hundred years ago, after a millennium and a half of Christianity, there was a solid basis for the saying "You might as well be hung for [stealing] a sheep as a lamb." Where was capital punishment first abated? As far as I have been able to learn, it was Frederick II (Frederick the Great) of Prussia (1740--1788), who insisted that he personally must approve all executions, and he approved no more than a dozen or so every year, for the most heinous offenses. Frederick was an atheist, although he was happy to invite the Jesuits to educate his grotesquely ignorant people.

It was really the semi-Christian Quakers who first began to implement the humane reforms against violence and slavery, and they were despised by most other Christians. Slavery was ardently defended from the pulpits throughout the United States. I don't believe the parsons who defended it were in any way inferior in their knowledge of the Bible to the others, who claim to be inspired by the Bible when they condemn slavery.

Sheshbazzar

Of course it is "political-alienation-speak", as was admitted to in the very first sentence,......"because of my "political alienation"..... and "my "political alienation" is simply an aversion to the corruption, and to the compromised principals inherent in the political process of compromise."
The present conflict is not Vietnam, here there are an entirely different set of underlying causes, and political/ideological issues that will not be resolved or just go away by simply withdrawing.
Radical Islamic fundamentalism is a threat to the peace, to freedom of speech, and to all freedoms and the liberties of all men everywhere.
We can stop our troops from further killing, but that will not stop those who seek to destroy Democracy, and all of those freedoms that are part and parcel of our Democratic societies.
The choice is, we either fight the bloody battles now, on their soil, or run away home, and end up fighting the bloody battles to defend our Democratic freedoms latter, on the mainstreets of our own communities, and from our own rooftops. But by that time, we will have already lost the war.
What would a thousand years or so of Shiara law imposed worldwide, do for the human condition? and for our cherished "democratic" institutions and freedoms?
If we do not defend Democracy, we will most certainly lose it.


In my previous posts I spoke of the need for such basic humanitarian supplies to a poor country, such as soap, bleach and disinfectants, certainly a few band-aids would also be graciously received.
Not a war zone there, except against hunger, malnutrition, infectious diseases, illiteracy, and of course the corporate greed and political corruption that has not been effective in relieving the suffer1ing of the poor.

Roland

Proof that the laws in the OT - calling for the death penalty for adulterers, homosexuals, disobedient children and those who pick up sticks on the Sabbath - are crap can be seen in the fact that no one in a modern civilized society would be allowed to get away with enforcing them. If these laws and punishments were really divinely inspired, wouldn't true believers still be calling for them to be enacted? Apparently, the human race has become more moral than God.

James Brown

Perhaps you've never heard of the Reconstructionist Christians?

Gamera

We're arguing at cross purposes, Ethn. I'm not claiming Christians lived up to their ethics. I am saying those ethics were articulated and posited as worth following. It is a command of Jesus to love your enemy. That's a high standard. Christians accept the standard. If they fail to live up to it, it doesn't negate the standard, which I assert is unique.