Freethought & Rationalism Archive

slaveofChrist · 10-30-2003, 10:05 PM

Although the Bible is well supported in this area by extra Biblical texts, I thought it might be interesting to post another confirmation of Biblical accuracy.

{cut and paste removed - please use the link below.}

Taken from: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a014.html

Let me know what you guys think

Secular Pinoy · 10-30-2003, 11:23 PM

If this is something bible believers should be proud of (a minor OT figure), then I've seriously overestimated their religion's archeological support. Maybe next time, there'd be something more substantive, like evidence for a global flood, or perhaps extrabiblical attestation of the resurrection account in Matthew.

WinAce · 10-30-2003, 11:24 PM

Quote:

[ From the link ]

If Balaam was a real person, what about Balak, Moses, Joshua and all of the other persons named in the Biblical narrative? They must have been real as well, and the events described authentic.

Just curious, do you know what a "non-sequitur" is?

slaveofChrist · 10-30-2003, 11:44 PM

Hey WinAce, I recognize you from Tweb

Well, I am not familiar with the formal definition of a non-sequitur but I'm gonna go ahead and guess you've found one.
I did not write the article nor do I agree with the logic of the author and I thank you for pointing that out. Although, just because the author makes one logical error does not discredit him or the piece in question.

As for the insignificance of Balaam...he was clearly significant. The book of Numbers deals with him and his attack on Israel in a significant manner. God dealt directly with Balaam and Balaam directly attacked God's chosen people.

I am not particularly proud of this bit of evidence, but I think it was worth posting. I am new on this board, so I am curious to see how you all respond to certain things.

Have a good day.

Secular Pinoy · 10-30-2003, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slaveofChrist
The book of Numbers deals with him and his attack on Israel in a significant manner. God dealt directly with Balaam and Balaam directly attacked God's chosen people.

Whoa, there. You mean the evidence for Balaam's existence gives credibility to your statements above, especially about the part about god "dealing" with Balaam? How? Does it also give credibility to that little story about Balaam and his maltreated beast-of-burden (Numbers 22)?

slaveofChrist · 10-31-2003, 12:02 AM

I never mentioned anything about credibility.
I just said that Balaam was more than a minor figure in the Old Testament. Thats all.
Credibility is very different debate which I have not addressed.

Steven Carr · 10-31-2003, 03:30 AM

Why does it confirm Biblical accuracy that a legendary name appears in the texts? (Assume I am using legend in the sense that Joe Namath is a legend)

The Book of Abraham (see Mormon myths) also uses a legendary name....

Vorkosigan · 10-31-2003, 05:16 AM

Slave, the text cannot be interpreted the way ChristianAnswers does. I'll give you a hint. What god does the Balaam in the Deir Alla text worship? It ain't YHWH.

The truth is that Balaam was a cult-hero incorporated into several local religions, and the relationship between the text and some putative historical hero isn't as one-to-one as you might think.

Further, the idea that Balaam can confirm Exodus is laughable. I'd run over to www.bibleinterp.com, a great site for tracking the latest Bible news, stuffed with articles by scholars of the first rank. See the latest one on the redating of Exodus to the second millenium.

Stop by more often. I like TWeb, but here is home for me.

Vorkosigan

{edit URL to remove comma from hotlink - Toto}

Dargo · 10-31-2003, 05:37 AM

There was an episode of Star Trek TNG were Picard and co. went back in time to the late 19th century and met Samuel Clemens. He even visited the Enterprise briefly. There is clear evidence that Samuel Clemens existed, so from we can infer from this that the episode Time Arrow actually took place. While this does not prove that the entire NG series is true, it does give some evidence that it is based on facts not myth.

DrJim · 10-31-2003, 07:46 AM

From the Balaam site:

Quote:

His persona as revealed in the Deir Alla text precisely matches that of the Balaam of Numbers 22-24. If Balaam was a real person, what about Balak, Moses, Joshua and all of the other persons named in the Biblical narrative? They must have been real as well, and the events described authentic.

Precisely matches? Does he refuse to curse Israelites in the inscription?

If Balaam is real, so too must Moses etc.???? So, is Balaam real? All we know is that there is an inscription about him and a story in an anceint Israelite book. That does not make him real: only a characters in two culture's mythology. And even if there was a Balaam whose career inspired both texts, there is no way of knowing exactly what he was like: both accounts can be legendary expansions. And there is, of course, no necessary connection between the existence of Balaam and the likelihood of the exodus or any of the other characters the Bible associates with it.

The writer of the website may not be the lead duck in the intellectual formation, but we should at least acknowledge a proper quack when we encounter one...

JRL

10-30-2003, 10:05 PM	#1
slaveofChrist Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: City of Angels Posts: 50	Extra Biblical evidence for Biblical account Although the Bible is well supported in this area by extra Biblical texts, I thought it might be interesting to post another confirmation of Biblical accuracy. {cut and paste removed - please use the link below.} Taken from: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a014.html Let me know what you guys think

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10-30-2003, 11:23 PM	#2
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	If this is something bible believers should be proud of (a minor OT figure), then I've seriously overestimated their religion's archeological support. Maybe next time, there'd be something more substantive, like evidence for a global flood, or perhaps extrabiblical attestation of the resurrection account in Matthew.

10-30-2003, 11:44 PM	#4
slaveofChrist Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: City of Angels Posts: 50	Hey WinAce, I recognize you from Tweb Well, I am not familiar with the formal definition of a non-sequitur but I'm gonna go ahead and guess you've found one. I did not write the article nor do I agree with the logic of the author and I thank you for pointing that out. Although, just because the author makes one logical error does not discredit him or the piece in question. As for the insignificance of Balaam...he was clearly significant. The book of Numbers deals with him and his attack on Israel in a significant manner. God dealt directly with Balaam and Balaam directly attacked God's chosen people. I am not particularly proud of this bit of evidence, but I think it was worth posting. I am new on this board, so I am curious to see how you all respond to certain things. Have a good day.

10-31-2003, 12:02 AM	#6
slaveofChrist Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: City of Angels Posts: 50	I never mentioned anything about credibility. I just said that Balaam was more than a minor figure in the Old Testament. Thats all. Credibility is very different debate which I have not addressed.

10-31-2003, 03:30 AM	#7
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	Why does it confirm Biblical accuracy that a legendary name appears in the texts? (Assume I am using legend in the sense that Joe Namath is a legend) The Book of Abraham (see Mormon myths) also uses a legendary name....

10-31-2003, 05:16 AM	#8
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Slave, the text cannot be interpreted the way ChristianAnswers does. I'll give you a hint. What god does the Balaam in the Deir Alla text worship? It ain't YHWH. The truth is that Balaam was a cult-hero incorporated into several local religions, and the relationship between the text and some putative historical hero isn't as one-to-one as you might think. Further, the idea that Balaam can confirm Exodus is laughable. I'd run over to www.bibleinterp.com, a great site for tracking the latest Bible news, stuffed with articles by scholars of the first rank. See the latest one on the redating of Exodus to the second millenium. Stop by more often. I like TWeb, but here is home for me. Vorkosigan {edit URL to remove comma from hotlink - Toto}

10-31-2003, 05:37 AM	#9
Dargo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 713	There was an episode of Star Trek TNG were Picard and co. went back in time to the late 19th century and met Samuel Clemens. He even visited the Enterprise briefly. There is clear evidence that Samuel Clemens existed, so from we can infer from this that the episode Time Arrow actually took place. While this does not prove that the entire NG series is true, it does give some evidence that it is based on facts not myth.

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