Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chili · 11-20-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

[

Israel is destined to be the seat of the Messiah...when that happens Yeshua's kingdom will not only become of the world...it will be the world.
Rev. 11

Is-ra-el is a state of mind and should have never become a nation. By making it a nation, or help making it a nation America is in part responsible not only for all the wars and lost lives in those wars, but also and especially the well being of Judaism as it was meant to be.

spamandham · 11-20-2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godwithus

Indeed, in their rabid pursuit to convert people...why would they include a huge false prophecy into the Texts? The return of Jesus after all is the most important doctrine in Christianity....if he didnt show up in AD 70 (for those holding to the AD 70 view), why include this "false Prophecy" in the Texts years afterwards?

It isn't a prophecy at all. That which had already happened, was placed on the lips of Jesus as prophetic for dramatic purpose.

I know it's hard for a modern dominionist to even consider the idea that early Christians were not exactly like you, but they weren't. Their Christianity was symbolism and myth, not some cartoonish end times fantasy land where Jesus literally comes floating down out of the clouds.

The kingdom of god referred to in Mark is *not* an earthly theocratic kingdom. Go read the parables about the kingdom in Mark and come back and explain how what Mark has to say about it is in any way consistent with silly modern zionist ideas.

The kingdom of god Mark writes about is the church itself, and Jesus' return is the spirit that guides the church, not some dude floating around in the sky.

Joan of Bark · 11-20-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

[

Israel is destined to be the seat of the Messiah...when that happens Yeshua's kingdom will not only become of the world...it will be the world.
Rev. 11

Is-ra-el is a state of mind and should have never become a nation. By making it a nation, or help making it a nation America is in part responsible not only for all the wars and lost lives in those wars, but also and especially the well being of Judaism as it was meant to be.

Many orthodox Jews would agree with you. They were against the creation of an Israeli state, as they believed that only God could create Israel.

Joan of Bark · 11-20-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godwithus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Godwithus, are you ever going to respond to my posts, or have you admitted defeat?

And reading scripture converted you, huh? So you read about YHWH allowing (or creating, to be more accurate) floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, malaria, influenza, cholera and small pox into the world, and slaughtering the entire human race in Genesis, save eight people, and about YHWH ordering the Hebrews to slaughter every man, woman and child in a couple of Canaanite cities in Joshua, and you said to yourself, Yeah, this all makes total sense. This is a god I gotta love!?

Hi! Hey could you read the Genesis story about why God destroyed the earth with a flood?

Yes, because everyone on Earth was evil (and who made them that way?). Every man, woman, and child (all those evil babies!).

And of course YHWH, being omnipotent, had no options but total annihilation. Then again, being omniscient, He knew from the beginning all this would come to pass, making Him grossly incompetant or a sadist. Which is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godwithus

Also read Deut. 2, and tell me what you get from that.

Deut 2:32

Quote:

32 When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed[c] them—men, women and children. We left no survivors. 35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves. 36 From Aroer on the rim of the Arnon Gorge, and from the town in the gorge, even as far as Gilead, not one town was too strong for us. The LORD our God gave us all of them.

Oh yeah, in His great mercy, He allowed some towns to continue. Others weren't so lucky. Oh, loving God! Oh, merciful God!

spamandham · 11-20-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Israel is the Kingdom of God..as the Messiah will rule from that state, the whole world.

This is such an absurd misconstrue of the Gospel kingdom it's funny really.

Go read what Mark has to say about the kingdom of god.

Sheshbazzar · 11-20-2010, 10:09 PM

And there is this one;

Quote:

Luke17:20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said;
The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Seems to indicate that he believed The Kingdom was then present, and was accesable within them that believed.

sugarhitman · 11-20-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godwithus

Hi! Hey could you read the Genesis story about why God destroyed the earth with a flood?

Yes, because everyone on Earth was evil (and who made them that way?). Every man, woman, and child (all those evil babies!).

And of course YHWH, being omnipotent, had no options but total annihilation. Then again, being omniscient, He knew from the beginning all this would come to pass, making Him grossly incompetant or a sadist. Which is it?

Deut 2:32

Quote:

32 When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed[c] them—men, women and children. We left no survivors. 35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves. 36 From Aroer on the rim of the Arnon Gorge, and from the town in the gorge, even as far as Gilead, not one town was too strong for us. The LORD our God gave us all of them.

Oh yeah, in His great mercy, He allowed some towns to continue. Others weren't so lucky. Oh, loving God! Oh, merciful God!

Quote:

Yes, because everyone on Earth was evil (and who made them that way?). Every man, woman, and child (all those evil babies!).

Mrs. Bark, humans are like God...Intelligent beings...and God destroyed the world because of evil and the corruption of the human genetic pool when the rebellious angels pro-created with humans.

Quote:

h yeah, in His great mercy, He allowed some towns to continue. Others weren't so lucky. Oh, loving God! Oh, merciful God!

*sigh* Did you intentionally ignore the relevant info Mrs. Bark?

Quote:

Then the LORD said to me, Do not harass the Moabites or provoke them to war, for I will not give you any part of their land. I have given Ar to the descendants of Lot as a possession. (The Emites used to live there— a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites. Like the Anakites, they too were considered Rephaites, but the Moabites called them Emites...Horites used to live in Seir, but the descendants of Esau drove them out. They destroyed the Horites from before them and settled in their place, just as Israel did in the land the LORD gave them as their possession.)....When you come to the Ammonites, do not harass them or provoke them to war, for I will not give you possession of any land belonging to the Ammonites. I have given it as a possession to the descendants of Lot....(That too was considered a land of the Rephaites, who used to live there; but the Ammonites called them Zamzummites. They were a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites. The LORD destroyed them from before the Ammonites, who drove them out and settled in their place. The LORD had done the same for the descendants of Esau, who lived in Seir, when he destroyed the Horites from before them. They drove them out and have lived in their place to this day. And as for the Avvites who lived in villages as far as Gaza, the Caphtorites coming out from Caphtor destroyed them and settled in their place.)

Deut 2

You see Mrs. Bark, what we see here is the destruction of the remnants of the Nephilim whose lands were settled by the Adamic tribes...not just the Israelites. You are false visualizing ma'am.

So next time, do pay attention when reading the texts.

sugarhitman · 11-20-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

And there is this one;

Quote:

Luke17:20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said;
The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Seems to indicate that he believed The Kingdom was then present, and was accesable within them that believed.

Quote:

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation,

21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.

22 Then he said to his disciples, The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.

23 Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them.

24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other.

25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man.

27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.

29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulphur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

31 On that day no-one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no-one in the field should go back for anything.

32 Remember Lot's wife!

33 Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

35-36
Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.

37 Where, Lord? they asked. He replied, Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.

Obviously the coming Kingdom is literal. Perhaps Jesus cryptic statement means that those without the Spirit within them will not be able to observe the coming of the Kingdom...hence the warning that His coming will come like a thief in the night upon those who are not saved.

Quote:

It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.

29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulphur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

Sheshbazzar · 11-21-2010, 01:34 AM

And perhaps all this dialog was made up a hundred years or more latter by group of wacky cultists.

Chili · 11-21-2010, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Is-ra-el is a state of mind and should have never become a nation. By making it a nation, or help making it a nation America is in part responsible not only for all the wars and lost lives in those wars, but also and especially the well being of Judaism as it was meant to be.

Many orthodox Jews would agree with you. They were against the creation of an Israeli state, as they believed that only God could create Israel.

It is what created hell on earth for Judaism and on account of that Western Australia would have been the prefered location (or 'downtown' sahara maybe, lol).

Eu-phrates means bright mind and not bright piece of land.

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11-21-2010, 01:34 AM	#89
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	And perhaps all this dialog was made up a hundred years or more latter by group of wacky cultists.

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