jgibson000

Oh .. so it's now "details" that haven't been produced, not, as originally asked for, names of scholars who have dealt with the "arguments" that Peshitta primacists put forward in support of their claims.

More goal post shifting and more refusal to be responsible fot your claims.evasion.

What's funny is that you have been one of the worst offenders against the board's "house rules".

May we finally know whether you can actually back up your original assertion that the "the arguments" that Peshitta primacists put forward in support of their claims have never been subjected to scholarly review? Do you or do you not know for a fact -- from your personal, direct, first hand contact with the works of the scholars I referred you to -- that the scholars I referred you to have not done so? Have you or have you not read the works of the scholars I referred you to?

JG

judge

HNow you are getting it Jeffrey. The evidence consists of details. There is hope for you yet. :devil1:

jgibson000

But alas - as is shown by your persistence in claiming knowledge you do not possess and in your studied avoidance of questions which, if you honestly answered them, would show that you have no grounds for your claims -- not for you.

yasaptz

But even so -- I ask once more:

Can you can you can you not back up your original assertion that the "the arguments" that Peshitta primacists put forward in support of their claims have never been subjected to scholarly review, yes or no.

Do you or do you not know for a fact -- that is, from your personal, direct, first hand contact with the works of the scholars I referred you to -- that the scholars I referred you to have not done so?

Have you or have you not read the works of the scholars I referred you to?

JG

spin

The only confusion I see here is you talking as though you have something relevant to say in your attempted hair-splitting over the phrase Syrian fathers. Please don't impose your own linguistic inadequacies on me. You continue to insist an act of grouping onto me. If I say sundry Syrian fathers, you'd find some silly excuse for me to ungroup them. Please be reasonable.

This distinction, however, between the church of the east and the rest of the Aramaic speaking communities is not very meaningful in the 4th and 5th centuries at least until the Sassanids took the christians of the east under their protection. However, when you look at a map, much of what you would consider the church of the east at the beginning of the fifth century was in what is now Turkey with Edessa, Nisibis and Mopsuestia, so your notion of Persian is only political, definitely not geographical. The fathers who had influence in the church of the east were Theodore of Mopsuestia, Nestorius, people who were Greek trained. Your performance here is for a later period than that which we are talking about.

Your distinction at this time is meaningless.

Yes, I've heard this mantra before.

In other words you have no evidence for any of what you are trying to argue.

As utter confusion still reigns in your head, you confuse Vetus Syra, a text type or family, with a manuscript, Syrus Sinaiticus. It is pure folly to assume that Vetus Syra didn't contain any other text considered scripture. (You can use your own arguments against yourself here and save me the effort.)

So, if you can't provide an OS version of the citied text, you'll assume against your own logic that there wasn't any.


spin

judge

Utter crap.

Here is a reference. Concerning rabbula the "Tryrant of Edessa", who perseucted the COE.

If rabbula persecuted them how can you suggest there was no distinction.

Your assertion is crap.

(c.f., Han J. W. Drijvers in Journal of Early Christian Studies 4.2 (1996) pp 235-248 , Johns Hopkins University Press.)

Well I'm sure you aren't going to listen...byt for anyone esle this is just wrong. As I pointed out earlier nestorious wansn't even a COE monk. He was from Constantinople.

For anyone else...


From..History of the Nestorian Church
Again , Spin you perform quite poorly when you leave your strong areas.

But i wll say this for you, at least you have ago, try to provide explanations a nd stick your neck out.
In this instance you are just putting your foot in your mouth...again

spin

Still confused, eh judge? Who did Rabbula "persecute" exactly? Wouldn't have been Nestorians, would it?? Nestorians were perhaps solely from the church of the east??? You are hanging from the flimsiest of threads.

Tell me something I didn't know. The point is that he was popular for the church of the east, along with Greek thinkers.

... who wants to follow judge's confusion...

Judging by your standards, I don't think one can make much of this pronouncement.

No, in your mouth... again.

You continue to spout unsupported claptrap and pretend that you know something about what you are trying to talk about. It's quite a goose chase. I still want to know what you think you can debate about.


spin

judge

OK I will debate you on the following.

You can stand by your comment about the peshitta not being cited before rabbula.

I will argue that the peshitta is cited before Rabbula.

jgibson000

What happened to the claim that the Peshitta was the original NT text?

JG

spin

I need to make a distinction with your provocative rewording of what I said. If the Peshitta is a development through revision of the Vetus Syra, how do you distinguish what is and what is not Vetus Syra? When you state that my comment that the Peshitta is not "cited before rabbula", allows you to simply claim that as the text is the same as the Peshitta, then obviously it is the Peshitta, which simply skirts the problem of a Peshitta developed from the Vetus Syra.

That was not a central issue of your pack of lunacies. You were trying to claim (correct me where wrong) that

1. the Greek christian testament is a translation of the Peshitta, and that
2. the Peshitta was the first Syriac collection of christian sacred texts.

Clutching at Rabbula is merely another of your running off topic. Please try to stay on the course.


spin

judge

Spin , it is very simple. You made the following comment.


You are goading me for a debate, on more than one occaision in this thread.

But when I call your bluff ..well....you wont debate.

Look I dont really care one way or the other. I have much better things to do, and you probably do to. But if you do want to debate or even discuss this then I am at your disposal.

But to answer your query.
We compare Aphrahat both with the peshitta and with the Vetus Syra.
It is that simple.
Anyway, all the best and if you are having a break this time of year, as many of us are then I wish you a happy and safe time.

added in edit:
Jeffery if you are reading this I extend the same wishes to you. If you are having a break I hope you have a happy and safe time.