bacht

This is a silly question. But one example is Josephus, an eyewitness of events in Judea and Galilee for the period in question. In his first book, written just a few years after the fall of Jerusalem, he says NOTHING about Christians or Jesus.

In his expanded history of the Jews (Antiquities) there is only the famous testimonium and a similarly cryptic reference to John the Baptist (no Paul, no disciples, no churches, no "philosophy" like the Pharisees and Essenes and Zealots). The reference to James as brother of Jesus is indirect and problematic.

If you haven't already, try reading The Jewish War from the end of Herod's reign to the beginning of the revolt as an alternative version of Luke/Acts. You'll come across a few Jesus' and Johns along the way, and other familiar names like Saul, Agrippa, Felix etc.

kcdad

Of course it is a silly question. It is as silly as asking for preserved objective documents that discuss an itinerant Jewish teacher whose society was utterly destroyed by the prevailing empire.

bacht

If Jesus had the impact reported in the gospels and Acts then someone outside of Christian circles should have noticed. Apparently no-one did. This suggests that he lived in peoples' hearts, not in their physical world.

Pharisees and others saw the end coming and evacuated to Jamnia during the first revolt. That was the beginning of the Mishnah and Palestinian Talmud. Josephus was translated into Greek and circulated around the diaspora. Not all 2nd Temple literature was lost, otherwise we couldn't have conversations like this.

Loomis

That’s an excellent observation.

Fwiw the Jesus in Mark also promised the high priest that he would live to see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven.

Loomis

But Acts 10:39 also says Jews killed Jesus on a tree. So does Acts 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24, and Sanhedrin 43a.

aa5874

But, your response is totally absurd. Where did I get the names Jesus of Nazareth or Saul/Paul? I did not get them from my imagination.

Where is information about Jesus of Nazareth and Saul/Paul found?

It is found in the Canonical NT and Church writings.

You are most bizarre. You seem not to understand the difference between actual history ( what factually happened), and fiction (no facts) .

You are publicly and blatantly engaged in posting your own prejudices and presumptions.

There are no historical sources of antiquity that claim Paul had a stroke in the 1st century on the road to Damascus. The Pauline writer did not write that he had a stroke.

Why do you presume Paul had a stroke? Because you have prejudiced your arguments with imagined facts.

Why do you accept that Saul/Paul was on the road to Damascus?

Why do you accept that there was a person called Saul/Paul?

And, now why do you NOT accept that Saul/Paul was blinded by a bright light as stated in Acts of the Apostles?

After all, it is the very Acts that claimed there was a character called Saul/Paul and the Pauline writers have written about events found in Act.


Please make your position crystal clear. What exactly do you agree with?

You appear to only read the first line of my post, or perhaps can only remember the last phrase.

You appear not to realise that it is NOT necessary to prove without any doubt that the HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition but to establish that HJ is the least likely entity or most irrational position based on the NT and Church writings.

Not even Galileo proved the earth was round and traveled around the Sun. He only provided a theory for his observation or data collected.

But, you are the one who wants Jesus of Nazareth to be true. You are the one who claimed Jesus of Nazareth truly did say things found in the NT which you have discredited.

Now, you appear not to understand how deduction works.

The Church writers claimed that the description of Jesus in the Gospels was fundamentally TRUE.

Now, Jesus of Nazareth was described as ,the offspring of the HOLY GHOST who walked on water, transfigured, resurrected and ascended to heaven.

And based on a Pauline writer, Jesus must be RAISED FROM the DEAD[/U] to save mankind from sin and that he saw Jesus in resurrected state.

Now, by deduction such an entity was NOT on earth or the least likely entity to have been on earth in the 1st century. Jesus of NAZARETH is not biologically plausible.

Therefore, the authors of NT and Church writers are HOSTILE WITNESSES to the existence of Jesus of Nazareth.

Jesus of Nazareth did not exist based on their own description.

But, examine these inconsistencies in the Jesus story.

1. Jesus of Nazareth was accused of blasphemy by Jews in Jerusalem but was deified and worshiped as a God and asked to forgive the sins of mankind and to abandon the Laws of Moses including circumcision.

2. Peter denied ever knowing Jesus and denied any association with Jesus yet was supposedly made bishop of Rome.

3. The disciples were hiding for fear of the Jews, yet still managed to come out of hiding and set up Churches in Judea and publicly preached in the streets when Saul/Paul was having people stoned to death.

By deduction, the entire NT is fundamentally fiction based. There was no Jesus of NAZARETH, disciples or Saul/Paul in the 1st century as described in the Canon.

Loomis

Jesus was a Jewish name. But where did that name come from?

Philippians 2:8-9, Ephesians 1:20-21, Sirach 46:1, Barnabas 12:8, and Matthew 1:21, all suggest that at one point ‘Jesus’ may have been an honorary title. Note that in the OT Joshua was originally named Hoshea.The Jews might have named their kids ‘Jesus’ because ‘Jesus’ was a savior character from Jewish folklore. ‘Jesus’ may have been a midrashic personification of all the Jewish heroes (heroes who were given the title 'Jesus') clumped together.

I know you like to stick to facts and not speculate, but I just thought I’d share that with ya. :wave:

kcdad

Is that what it suggests?

kcdad

OK... you win. The Jews hung Jesus from (is that ok, from? Or should it be on?) a tree.

kcdad

WRONG, as usual.
NOT just in Canonical writings. There are plenty of non-canonical "heretical" writings that include references to Jesus of Nazareth.