jbarntt

Perhaps Mark just didn't know Jesus' ancestry. If I tell you that Alexander Hamilton was a Lt. Col. in the Continental Army who went on to be the first Sec. of the Treasury, is my account doubtful because I don't tell you who his parents were ?

Perhaps I am not interested in his youth, but rather his public career. I may or may not know the details of his parentage, but it is not my interest. It may be for another author, in the case of Jesus, Luke and Matthew.

Is James Thomas Flexner's "The Young Hamilton" invalid because it only deals with his life until he enters public life at age 26 ?

I don't get your point.

jbarntt

Pilate does not choose between Jesus and Barabbas, the Jews do. That is the point of the story.

JoeWallack

JW:
The topic comes up periodically on these Holy Boards as to why "Mark" 15:21:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Mark_15:21

"And they compel one passing by, Simon of Cyrene, coming from the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to go [with them], that he might bear his cross."

"Mark" identifies someone, specifically here, Simon of Cyrene, by giving sons instead of a Father. This Thread has already demonstrated and them some that "Mark" used names in general as a Literary Contrivance Device. Specifically here "Mark's" alternating of Patristic and Child Markers to identify a person is Contrived as follows. "Mark" has a major theme of "Family" Replacement and how it Reacts to Jesus. Before Jesus' Passion all are identified by their Fathers and Mothers. After/During Jesus' Passion all are identified by their Children.

The following excerpts from "Mark" demonstrate the above and further strengthening the conclusion is that "Mark" Replaces Specific and Key names in the process. Enjoy!:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Mark

1:19 And going on a little further, he saw James the [son] of Zebedee, and John his brother, who also were in the boat mending the nets.

2:14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the [son] of Alphaeus sitting at the place of toll, and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.

3:17 and James the [son] of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and them he surnamed Boanerges, which is, Sons of thunder:
3:18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the [son] of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean,

3:33 And he answereth them, and saith, Who is my mother and my brethren?
[Here is the inner question (and answer) which is Framed by the other verses here]

6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended in him.
[Note that "Mark" addresses every claimed relative here:
Mary - replaced by Mary at the Passion.
James and Joses - replaced by the children of Mary at the Passion.
Judas - the only one not replaced but see following.
Simon - replaced by Simon of Cyrene at the Passion.]

9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them;
[The Literary Transition]

14:21 For the Son of man goeth, even as it is written of him: but woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had not been born.
[The explanation for why Judas was not replaced]

15:21 And they compel one passing by, Simon of Cyrene, coming from the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to go [with them], that he might bear his cross.

15:40 And there were also women beholding from afar: among whom [were] both Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

15:47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the [mother] of Joses beheld where he was laid.

16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the [mother] of James, and Salome, bought spices, that they might come and anoint him.

And the last, which is First:

Joseph

Ben C Smith

Mark has a theme of replacing family with nonfamily, so he reminds his reader of this theme by replacing one family member (father) with another (child) in his identifications? How does that work?

Children are family, too, even according to Mark:

Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for my sake and for the sake of the gospel, but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age....

Ben.

Amaleq13

Maybe it isn't so much a replacement of "family" with "nonfamily" as it is a replacement of the "old" with the "new".

Ben C Smith

Maybe.

But if the old is to be represented by fathers and the new is to be represented by children, why lump fathers and children together as part of the old in Mark 10?

Ben.

Amaleq13

10:29?

So much for consistency.

Ben C Smith

Sorry, yes, 10.29. I forgot to give the reference the first time round and then remembered only the chapter the second time.

Verse 30 supports a surrogate family, and fails (interestingly) to list the father (Crossan notices this), but it is unclear to me how the sons of Simon of Cyrene and Mary are supposed to represent this kind of surrogate family as opposed to representing the ordinary blood relations of verse 29.

Ben.

DCHindley

Just out of curiosity, what the heck do you mean by "DiualCritical"?

If you meant "diacritical" then what do diacritical marks have to do with the presentation of names.

Do you see ümlauts or accénts that I don't?

ĐÇĤ

JoeWallack

JW:
I want to get the following into my inventory of "Mark's" use of names as a literary tool:

My guess is that in a Gospel notorious for using names as a literary tool "Iscariot" is a type of anagram for "Christ":

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_3:19



Joseph

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page