Gurdur

D'oh, who suggested it was ?
Nevertheless, crimes have been committed in the name of atheism just as they have in the name of theisms.
The Orthodox Church functions often as a source of fundyism, so your wishes are contradictory.

Amos

I knew you don't know the difference between Catholic indoctrination and religious fundamentalism. We are talking serious stuff here that is called hell for good reason.

Gurdur

You are begging the question. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism, no matter what its source.
Intolerance is intolerance, no matter what creed you preach intolerance in support of, whether dogmaticlly redefined atheism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodoxism, or whatever.

Mind you, more importantly to this thread, ungraciousness and lack of courtesy towards the original subject that formed the conversation between COAS and Pouye is simply ungracious lack of courtesy, no matter what creed you are defending, Amos.
We are indeed talking serious stuff, so maybe we can do without the surrealistic utterances.

Amos

Well where are they? were, just filling in the blanks until they return.

BruceWane

The crimes you mention were comitted in the name of fascism and/or communism, which are political ideologies, not religious viewpoints. While suppression of religious practices were/are certainly a part of these political movements, it is not their sole purpose; the supression of religion in these regimes is intended to substitute the state as highest power and savior in place of any religious diety. In other words, atheism is merely a by-product of these systems of government; it is not their purpose.

Pouye

For one, I have NO CLUE whatsover what Amos is talking about in any of his posts. He (or she or whatever) makes ZERO sense to this 6'3 inch 2 on 2 volleyball player. Maybe you should talk in terms of "digs" and "spikes" . But that is my fault, I guess...

As far a Biff is concerned, I can understand why he's got a burr under his saddle about missionaries. If you want me to go home, maybe you should try and come over here and remove me...

:boohoo:

BruceWane:

You have a point, and here is an example:

"I am warning you in all seriousness. I tell you that communism is sacred." (Nikita Krushchev in 1961, hailing a massive political experiment.)

Ten years later his successor Leonid Brezhnev reiterated these same sentiments:
"Everything wich bears on the life, activities, and name of Lenin is sacred."

The expressions of the idolatry of that time is found in the thousands of statues and in Lenins corpse macabrely displayed in Red Square.

An interesting thing happened in that society. Dethroning God, that generation found it difficult, if not impossible to leave the sanctuary void. They put a man in His place, which had in interesting affect -- not of elevating human nature, as you would expect -- but instead of demeaning it to depths of cruelty, depravity and stupidity unparalleled in human history.

If atheism is a bi-product... Hmmm.

Off topic,

Rock

Amos

And you are a linguist and a bible translator?

Oh, I am 5'10" and I don't play volleyball. I am just a simple man who never preached the Gospel and never claimed to be a Christian (as you well know, Catholics are sinners and not Christians or you wouldn't be there). Never actually read the bible and know that I never will.

In fairness to you, I did read the NT about 15 years ago and look up some passages for these discussions.

BruceWane

Right.....no comparison whatsoever to the third reich, witch trails, the inquisition, 9/11/2001, etc.................

Amos

As I see it God is dethroned when fallible humans put the ideal of salvation in its place. This "idol" is carved into the human mind as a if upon rock while the bible clearly states that after salvation "any of you who seek your justification in the law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from God favor" (Gal.5:4). The reality behind this passage leads to atheism that looks like a bi-product of theism but really is the rejection of idol worship.

Biff the unclean

Bruce Wane: The crimes you mention were comitted in the name of fascism and/or communism, which are political ideologies, not religious viewpoints.
This is, of course, an excellent point. However it is a point which is repeated on these boards every few weeks. No matter how many times it's repeated the initial erroneous argument gets repeated. The people you are explaining this to have already had it explained to them. If your argument has ever been refuted I've missed seeing it. SOP seems to be to just ignore it.

I suppose that much the same political connections can be seen in missionary work. The Spanish Catholics routinely sent in Missionaries to undermine native culture. That way they could follow up with only a minor military force. I live quite close to one of those Missions here in California.
The same tactics were used by the "Colonial Powers" 'til at least the Second World War. The name Lilioukalani comes to mind.
Sadly even though we have advanced enough that the (blatant) colonization has ceased, the undermining is still allowed to go on.

Pouye: As far a Biff is concerned, I can understand why he's got a burr under his saddle about missionaries. If you want me to go home, maybe you should try and come over here and remove me...

Although my interests are currently centered in Africa you can rest assured that I am actively working to undo at least some of the harm Missionaries have done and to prevent them from doing more harm in the future.

For example, the people I work with were told to "throw away" all of their "singsings" (traditional dances) by missionaries from Christian Missions of Many Lands (CMML) 50 years ago. I recently challenged them to think about their traditional dances and ask themselves questions about them.
How sad. Here you are enlightened enough understand that banning singsings and the history and heritage they represent is the 'throwing away of beautiful things.' Yet you consider the destruction of their religion and culture to be positive.
You are so close to understanding, yet close your eyes at the last second.

An interesting thing happened in that society. Dethroning God, that generation found it difficult, if not impossible to leave the sanctuary void. They put a man in His place...
Do you know the big difference between Lenin and All Mighty God?
Lenin isn't fictional.