SkepticBoyLee

I found this interesting per Wiki on thier article on "Christian Persecution":

"Roman authorities tried hard to avoid Christians because they "goaded, chided, belittled and insulted the crowds until they demanded their death.";193; One man shouted to the Roman officials: "I want to die! I am a Christian," leading the officials to respond: "If they wanted to kill themselves, there was plenty of cliffs they could jump off.";194; Such seeking after death is found in Tertullian's Scorpiace but was certainly not the only view of martyrdom in the Christian church. Both Polycarp and Cyprian, bishops in Smyrna and Carthage respectively, attempted to avoid martyrdom."

Does anyone have any comments or any similar sources to add to this?

This does tend to lend credence to early Christians being a "persky" bunch. So often we are told about Christian persecution and how horrible and mistreated they were and here we have evidence of them acting as, well assholes.

andrewcriddle

Bowersock's 'Martyrdom and Rome'
is a valuable study of this question.

IMO there sometimes was genuinely provocative behaviour by Christians resulting in martyrdom.

On the other hand a mass public proclamation of one's Christianity may have preempted attempts by a Roman governor to execute a few selected Christians. (Sort of an "I'm Spartacus" response.) The governor was left with the options of either killing many more Christians than he wanted or refraining from any executions of Christians at all.

Andrew Criddle

Roger Pearse

Just a suggestion -- verify these 'sources'. Whichever wiki you are using is probably a collection of hearsay, as wikis tend to be. I see that this is an article from Wikipedia on persecution, copied from here. How much do you trust this?

That phrase about jumping over cliffs -- that is familiar to me, and not in that context. After a little searching I find that it is from Tertullian, Ad Scapulam, chapter 5 (here):

[1] Your cruelty is our glory. Only see you to it, that in having such things as these to endure, we do not feel ourselves constrained to rush forth to the combat, if only to prove that we have no dread of them, but on the contrary, even invite their infliction. When Arrius Antoninus was driving things hard in Asia, the whole Christians of the province, in one united band, presented themselves before his judgment-seat; on which, ordering a few to be led forth to execution, he said to the rest, "O miserable men, if you wish to die, you have precipices or halters."

I don't believe that Tertullian endorses volunteering for martyrdom, and I recall that Scorpiace records Tertullian himself being in danger from the police, so evidently had not gone in search of them! On the other hand he does in that work emphasise the importance of being willing to die rather than recant, which it is possible has been quote-mined out of context in support of the above statements.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Ben C Smith

A few scattered data on the topic from my own memory banks:

1. The Martyrdom of Polycarp mentions, but refuses to endorse, a certain Quintus who volunteered for martyrdom but then was persuaded to offer the incense.

2. Anthony of Egypt journeyed to Alexandria in hope of suffering martyrdom.

3. Francis of Assisi, IIRC, did much the same thing, but had to turn around before arriving at his destination.

Ben.

Amaleq13

Could they be thinking of Ignatius?

Roger Pearse

It certainly happened sometimes. I remember something of the kind (condemned) in either the letter of the Gallican martyrs or the Passion of Perpetua.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Alf

Probably not so strange when you think about it.

Christians were in the aerly phase often recruited from the dispossed - the poor, those who struggled and lived hard lives. They lived hard lives here on earth but dreamt of a heaven with god where they would have a good time - death by martyrdom surely would ensure entrance to heaven, would it not? So they aspired to martyrdom. I am not saying all of them did but I find it reasonable that some of them did.

Of course, at one point the church clarified and said that seeking death is not according to the will of god and so for modern christians this mode where you actively seek martyrdom and death appear strange and unfamiliar.

However, in modern times we have something similar in islam with all those suicide bombers. They are in much the same position as the early christians. They are the one who feel disposessed and feel that life here is bad but if they commit their holy deed of blowing up a cafe with infidels they are guaranteed a life in heaven with Allah, aren\t they? And so they go and blow it up. As long as there are imams who endorse such acts radical muslims will continue to do those things.

Alf

SkepticBoyLee

The thing I am interested in is evidence that Christians were being nusances. Taunting, being overtly brash.