Starboy

Fine then, when I say that I do not advocate bullying then take me at my word. Unless you want to call me a liar.

Starboy

Calzaer

ld: Ok, fine, point taken. Shoot me for trying to say all points of view are equally useful and valuable.

I don't even know why I'm trying to help, I'm Teh Enemy(tm) anyway.

Gothic_J

sure. my major break came from a sarcastic hostile to christianity atheist.

not suprisingly, I echo him in many ways.

livius drusus

Kindly spare me the hostility. If I have misunderstood you then respond to my points and explain why I my interpretation is incorrect.

You said "But if they start dishing it out, then we should give better than we get." What did you mean by dishing it out? From the context it read like you were saying that anyone advocating a theistic perspective in any thread whatsoever was crossing the line from the acceptable learning approach into unacceptable bullying and was therefore fair game for a no holds barred response.

When does presenting a theist point of view become bullying?

Asha'man

I think you were thinking about my posting when I mentioned emotional manipulation. Your characterization is much more precisely targeted, that's a good insight.

Christianity employs manipulation that have been finely tuned over thousands of years. They have discovered the techniques that are most effective (via natural selection). It's an extremely hard thing to do, to break out of that type of refined and polished control structure.

As for techniques for breaking that control, it varies from person to person. Some people are suitable for gentle leading conversations, others need to have the hard truth hammered into them. Unfortunately, you can't tell ahead of time what technique will help a person, so you just have to use your best judgement.

diana

Well...they aren't.

Let's say we're having a barbeque. You and I and 10 other people are there. You step inside to check something on the stove, and two of the steaks disappear of the grill. You reemerge and notice the loss. You ask us what happened to those two steaks.

As it turns out, no one saw anything. Person A speculates that someone wanted his steaks rare and went ahead and nabbed them. Person B speculates that your German shepherds snagged them. Person C speculates that we have no way of knowing, why...hungry aliens could have descended from the heavens while our backs were turned.

Now, we can determine the possible veracity of Person A's idea by asking people around us, or checking for missing/dirty plates. We can ascertain how possible it is that the dogs nabbed a filet mignon snack by checking to see if they're eating or licking their lips. But Person C's explanation is so far afield that it isn't testable.

I suggest to you that all points of view are not equally useful and valuable.

d

livius drusus

Wait. Does this mean I'm a Bad Cop now? In all seriousness, the issue to me is tactic, style, manner, approach. These elements are entirely independent of point of view. In my experience, the people who fight bare-knuckled with theists employ the exact same combat style with their nontheist brethren.

Not mine.

Starboy

I guess it all depends on what you mean by representing the theistic point of view. Now if the theist has no problem with me being an atheist even if they know my honest opinion of their religion, then hey, they are fine with me. But that is so rare. I can only think of two such theists, RationalBAC and Amos that qualify. Maybe there are more, but I haven't come across them yet.

Starboy

seebs

Does practicing something count as advocating it?

winstonjen

I think so. Would you practice something you did not advocate?