FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-05-2008, 09:29 AM   #181
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,370
Default

S 15. Théodore bar Kônaï, Livre des Scholies, II, éd. Addaï Scher, Paris, 1912, p. 74 ss. Cf. Messina, Profezia di Zoroastro, p. 173. — Le Père Paul Peeters, dont on n'invoque jamais en vain l'érudition obligeante, a bien voulu traduire pour nous très exactement ce passage en français, et c'est Ã* lui que nous devons les renvois aux versets bibliques. — Un autre extrait de Théodore bar Kônaï est reproduit plus haut, fr. S 6, p. 103.

Prophétie de Zaradoust sur le Messie.

Zaradoust étant assis près de la source d'eau (vive) de Glosa de Hourîn (1), Ã* l'endroit où un bain avait été établi par les anciens rois, ouvrit la bouche et parla ainsi Ã* ses disciples Goustasp, Sâsan et MÃ*hman [ou MÃ*h-i-man] (2) : « Je m'adresse Ã* vous, mes amis et (mes) fils (3), que j'ai nourris de ma doctrine. Écoutez, que je vous révèle le mystère prodigieux concernant le grand roi qui doit venir dans le monde (4). En effet, Ã* la fin des temps, au moment de la dissolution qui les termine, un enfant sera conçu et formé avec (tous) ses membres dans le sein d'une vierge, sans que l'homme l'ait approchée (5). Il sera pareil Ã* un arbre Ã* la belle ramure et chargé de fruits, se dressant sur un sol aride (6). Les habitants de (cette) terre s'opposeront Ã* sa croissance et s'efforceront de le déraciner du sol, mais ils ne le pourront point. Alors ils se saisiront de lui et le tueront sur le gibet ; la terre et le ciel porteront le deuil de sa mort violente (7) et toutes les familles de peuples le pleureront. Il ouvrira la descente vers les pro-

(1) Ce nom ne paraît pas avoir été identifié ou expliqué.
(2) Les noms de ces trois disciples de Zoroastre ont été interprétés par le Père Messina (I.e., p. 185 s.). Goustasp est évidemment Vishtaspa, c'est-Ã*-dire Hystaspe, dont nous nous sommes occupés Ã* propos de son apocalypse (Introd., p. 216 ss.) Le passage du vi initial Ã* gou est attesté depuis le 1er siècle. — Sâ-sân, qui reparaît dans la Caverne des Trésors sous la forme Sîsan (fr. S 13a, p. 121, n. 4), serait, selon Markwart, Djamâspa (cf. infra, Ost. fr. S, p. 273, n. 2), mais le Père Messina préfère l'identifier avec Saêna, le disciple de Zoroastre, nommé dans le Dinkart (IX, 24, 17, cf. West, Pahl. Texts, IV, p. 230, et Yasht XIII, 97).— Enfin, Mahman, dont le nom a été corrompu en Mahîmad dans le Livre de l'Abeille (fr. S 16), serait Maidyôi-Mâonha (pehlvi : Mêdyômâh), le cousin de Zoroastre et son premier disciple, nommé dans le Yasna, LI, 19 ; cf. Dar-mesteter, II, 529, note 175. — Ces trois personnages sont mentionnés successivement Yasht, XIII, 95-99.
(3) Fils est probablement pris au sens propre, non au sens mystique. Le rédacteur syriaque s'est rappelé que la tradition de la doctrine des Mages se faisait de père en fils, comme on nous le dit ailleurs Ã* propos de cette prophétie même de la venue du Christ (fr. S 12, p. 119, note 3). En réalité, Zoroastre s'adressait Ã* ses disciples ; cf. supra, note 2.
(4) L'arrivée « Ã* la fin des temps » et lors de la destruction finale, d'un grand roi — regem magnum de caelo, comme dit Lactance, Jnst. VII, 17-19, d'après Hystaspe — est un thème connu des apocalypses mazdéennes ; cf. infra Hyst., fr. 15, p. 372, n. 4. Les prophéties judéo-chrétiennes l'ont repris en en transformant la signification (Lagrange, Le Messianisme, 1909, p. 116 ss.). D'autre part le manichéisme l'a adopté (Polotsky, Manich. Homilien, I, 1934, p. 32, 20 ; cf. Revue hist, des religions, CXI, 1935, p. 120 s.).
(5) Sur ce sauveur qui doit naître d'une vierge, cf. l'Introduction, p. 52.
(6) Cf. Isaïe, 53, 2 : « Ascendit sicut virgultum coram eo et sicut radix de terra sitienti ».
(7) Necis, mort violente ou meurtre.

fondeurs de la terre ; et de la profondeur il montera vers le (Très) Haut. Alors, on le verra venir avec l'armée de la lumière, porté sur les blanches nuées (x), car il est l'enfant conçu du Verbe générateur de toutes choses » (2).
Goustasp dit Ã* Zaradoust : « Celui de, qui tu as dit tout cela, d'où lui vient sa puissance? Est-il plus grand que toi, ou toi (es tu) plus grand que lui?»
Zaradoust lui dit : «Il surgira (3) de ma famille et de ma lignée. Moi c'est lui et lui c'est moi. Je suis en lui et il est en moi (4). Quand se manifestera le début de son avènement, de grands prodiges apparaîtront dans le ciel (5). On verra une étoile brillante au milieu du ciel, sa lumière l'emportera sur celle du soleil. Or donc, mes fils, vous la semence de vie, issue du trésor (6) de la lumière et de l'esprit, qui a été semée dans le sol du feu (7) et de l'eau, il vous faudra être sur vos gardes et veiller Ã* ce que je vous ai dit et en attendre l'échéance, parce que vous connaîtrez Ã* l'avance l'avènement du grand roi, que les captifs attendent pour être libérés.
Or donc, mes fils, gardez le mystère que je vous ai révélé ; qu'il soit écrit en votre cœur et conservé dans le trésor de vos âmes. Et

(1) Sur l'apparition du roi céleste, cf. Hystaspe, infra p. 370 s. ; Fin du monde, i). 87, et l'Introduction, p. 53 s.
(2) Cf. Ioh. 1, 2.
(3) Le futur, d'après la variante 8 [P. P.]
(4) Saoshyant doit, en effet, d'après la tradition iranienne, descendre de Zarathoustra (voir Introduction, p. 52). Notre texte va plus loin : il considère le premier comme un avatar du second, peut-être, comme le croit le Père Mes-sitia, parce que Zarathoustra reçoil déjÃ* dans l'Avcsta le titre de Saoshyant qui appartiendra au héros de la rénovation du monde. — "W. Bousset (Haupt-problcmc, p. 382) a rapproché de cette identification une doctrine qu'Épiphane attribue aux Séthiens gnostiques (Haer. 39, 3, 5, p. 74, 15 Holl) : ... Le rapprochement est d'autant plus justifié que Seth a été assimilé Ã* Zoroastre (Introd., p. 45). — Cf. toutefois p. 129, note 2.
(5) Cf. Luc 21, 25 : ... — Cf. infra, p. 308, Hystaspe, fr. 14.
(6) Trésor — l'arsenal, le dépôt [P. P.].
(7) Le texte a « de la lumière », avec la variante « du feu », mais celle-ci est corroborée par le Livre de 'Abeille (fr. S 16, p. 130).

quand se lèvera l'astre dont j'ai\parlé, que des courriers soient envoyés par vous, chargés de présents, pour l'adorer et lui faire offrande. Ne le négligez pas, pour qu'il ne vous fasse pas périr par le glaive, car il est le roi des rois et c'est de lui que, tous, ils reçoivent la couronne. Moi et lui nous sommes un (1). »
Ces choses furent dites par ce second Balaam (2), soit que, Dieu, selon sa coutume, l'ayant contraint, il ait rendu cet oracle, soit que, comme un homme du commun (3), il ait été persuadé par les prophéties qui font allusion au Messie et qu'il les ait dévoilées par avance.
(1) Ioh. x, 30 : ....
(2) Zoroastre est ici le «second Bala'am », c'est-Ã*-dire son successeur. Ailleurs il est identifié avec lui [fr S 9 a, p. 112] ; cf. l'Introd., p. 47 s.
(3) Littéralement « du peuple », c'est-Ã*-dire comme le premier venu pouvait le faire [P. P.]. Peut-être le sens est-il « qui était issu du peuple élu, du peuple par excellence » ; Théodore bar Kônaï croyait Zoroastre d'origine juive ; cf. supra, fr. S 6, p. 104, n. 4 ; le livre de l'Abeille, fr. S 1(3, p. 130, et Isho'dad, fr. S 17, p. 131.
Roger Pearse is offline  
Old 01-05-2008, 10:04 AM   #182
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,370
Default

S 15. Théodore bar Kônaï, Book of Scholia, II, ed. Addaï Scher, Paris, 1912, p. 74 ff. Cf. Messina, Profezia di Zoroastro, p. 173. — Fr Paul Peeters, whose help is never invoked in vain, has very kindly translated this passage very exactly, and added biblical references. — Another extract of Théodore bar Kônaï is reproduce above, fr. S 6, p. 103.

Prophecy of Zaradoust on the Messiah.

Zaradoust being seated next to a spring of (flowing) water of Glosa of Hourîn (1), at the place where a basin had been created by former kings, opened his mouth and spoke thus to his disciples Goustasp, Sâsan et MÃ*hman [ou MÃ*h-i-man] (2) : «I address myself to you, my friends and (my) sons (3), what I have stored up of my teaching. Listen to what I can reveal to you about the prodigous mystery concerning the great king who will come into the world (4).

In fact, at the end of time, at the moment of dissolution which ends it, an infant will be conceived and formed with (all) its members in the blood of a virgin, without knowing a man (5). He will be like a tree of good growth and heavy with fruit, growing in a desert soil. (6) The inhabitants of (this) earth will oppose themselves to his wisdom and force him to flee his native soil, but will achieve nothing. Then they will learn from him and kill him on a gibbet; earth and heaven will bear the mark of his violent death (7) and all the families of the nations will mourn him. He will open the descent towards the foundations of the earth, and from the depth he will mount up to the (most) High. Then he will be seen coming with the army of light, carried on white clouds (8) because he is the child conceived of the Word, the maker of all things» (9).

Goustasp said to Zaradoust : «Where does this one whom you told us about get his power? Is he greater than you, or are you greater than him?»

Zaradoust replied: «He will arise (10) from my family and my line. I am him and he is me. I am in him and he is in me (11). When his appearance begins, great prodigies will appear in the sky (12). A brilliant star will appear in the middle of the sky, its light brighter than that of the sun. But such, my sons, is his nature, issued from the treasure (13) of light and spirit, who has been tested in fire and water (14), it will be necessary to be on your guard and remember what I said to you and await the time, because you will know in advance the arrival of the great king, that the captives waiting to be freed.

So, my sons, guard the mystery that I have revealed to you; that it should be written on your heart and preserved in the treasure of your souls. And

(1) Unidentified/unexplained name.
(2) Goustasp is evidently Vishtaspa, i.e. Hystaspes; Sâsân, who reappears in the Cavern of Treasures as Sîsan (fr. S 13a, p. 121, n. 4) would be Djamâspa or Saêna, the disciple of Zoroastre, named in the Dinkart and Yasht XIII, 97).— Finally, Mahman, whose name is corrupted into Mahîmad in the Book of the Bee (fr. S 16), would be Maidyôi-Mâonha (pehlvi : Mêdyômâh), the cousin of Zoroaster and his first disciple, named in the Yasna, LI, 19 — These three are mentioned successively in the Yasht, XIII, 95-99.
(3) Son in a real rather than a mystical sense. The Syriac editor refers to the tradition that the doctrine of the Mages is handed down from father to son, as was noted on the prophecy of the coming of Christ (fr. S 12, p. 119, note 3).
In reality Zoroaster is addressing his disciples (see above note 2)
(4) The advent « at the end of time» and during the final destruction of a great king — regem magnum de caelo, so Lactantius, Inst. VII, 17-19, according to Hystaspes — is a theme known from mazdaean apocalypses; cf. infra Hyst., fr. 15, p. 372, n. 4. The Judeo-Christian prophecies have repeated it while transforming the meaning (Lagrange, Le Messianisme, 1909, p. 116 ss.). On the other hand manichaeism adopted it (Polotsky, Manich. Homilien, I, 1934, p. 32, 20 ; cf. Revue hist, des religions, CXI, 1935, p. 120 s.).
(5) On this saviour who must be born of a virgin, cf. Introduction, p. 52.
(6) Cf. Isaïe, 53, 2 : « Ascendit sicut virgultum coram eo et sicut radix de terra sitienti ».
(7) Necis, mort violente ou meurtre.
(8) On the apparition of the celestial king, cf. Hystaspe, infra p. 370 s. ; End of the world, i). 87, and the Introduction, p. 53 f.
(9) Cf. John. 1, 2.
(10) The future, according to variant 8 [P. P.]
(11) So Saoshyant must, according to Iranian tradition, descend from Zarathoustra (see Introduction, p. 52). Our text goes further: it considers the first as an avatar of the second, perhaps, as Fr. Messitia thinks, because Zarathoustra already receives in the Avesta the title of Saoshyant which will belong to the heroes of the renovation of the world. — W. Bousset (Haupt-probleme, p. 382) relates to this identification a doctrine which Epiphanius attributes to the Sethian gnostics (Haer. 39, 3, 5, p. 74, 15 Holl) : ... The connection is however more justified that Seth has been assimilated to Zoroastre (Introd., p. 45). — Cf. toutefois p. 129, note 2.
(12) Cf. Luke 21, 25 : ... — Cf. infra, p. 308, Hystaspes, fr. 14.
(13) Treasury — arsenal, depot [P. P.].
(14) The text has « from the light », with variant « from the fire», but this is corroborated by the Book of the bee (fr. S 16, p. 130).

when the star of which I speak rises, send messengers from you, bearing presents, to worship him and give gifts to him. Don't neglect him, lest he kill you with a sword, because he is the king of kings and from whom they receive a crown. I and he are one (15)»

These things were said by this second Balaam (16), whether because God, according to his custom, making him do so, he gave this oracle; or because, like a man of the people (17), he had been persuaded by the prophecies which make allusion to the messiah and that he had understood them in advance.

(15) John. x, 30 : ....
(16) Zoroastre is here the «second Bala'am », i.e. his successor. Elsewhere he is identified with him [fr S 9 a, p. 112] ; cf. Introd., p. 47 s.
(17) Literally « of the people », i.e like the first come could do this [P. P.]. Perhaps the sense is « who came from the chosen people, the people of excellence» ; Théodore bar Kônaï was suggesting that Zoroastre was of Jewish origin ; cf. supra, fr. S 6, p. 104, n. 4 ; the Book of the Bee, fr. S 13, p. 130, et Isho'dad, fr. S 17, p. 131.
Roger Pearse is offline  
Old 01-31-2008, 12:48 AM   #183
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,370
Default

The transcription into Arabic and translation into English of the complete Garshuni text in Ms. Mingana 142 which lay at the start of all this has now been done, and a really nice job it looks too! I'll get these online, and post the translation here as well.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
Roger Pearse is offline  
Old 01-31-2008, 06:02 AM   #184
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,370
Default

Dr Martin Zamit made the following transcription and English translation of Mingana manuscript 142, folios 48a to 61b:

The Mingana Collection (Birmingham): MS 142. Translation by Martin R. Zammit (University of Malta)

(f. 48a) We say, first, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, one God, Amen. We will instruct you, my brethren, about these extraordinary words from which the minds flee. For when we, the Christians, call "Father" God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ -- that is, the name of the Living, the One speaking by the Son -- this is the word "Father". And we also say "of the Son" -- that is, we mean the power of God. The Holy Gospel attests to this (truth): "... and the power of God shall come upon you, because the child born from you shall be called the Most Holy and the Son of God." And our saying "and of the Holy Spirit", (that is) because the Holy Spirit is the spirit of life of every living person from (?). The Holy Gospel bears witness (to this truth), in the words of the angel Gabriel: "... because the child born from you is from the Holy Spirit."

As regards, our brethren, the way of the foreigners, their original deities (f. 48b.) were three: the First Cause, the Mind born from it, and the Soul emanating from it. For this reason, they made each one of the temples of their deities consisting of three sanctuaries: the sanctuary of the First Cause, the sanctuary of the Mind and the sanctuary of the Soul. They covered them with gold and paintings, and in every sanctuary they set up an idol representing their deity. They said that the soul of the worshipped emanated onto that idol and it became a mediator between them and the humans. They offered sacrifices to them, as attested by their sects. Most of them worship the seven planets in the seven climes. For this reason, the fathers and the prophets opposed them with signs and wonders which transcend the minds. Firstly, the great wonder, such as the splitting of the sea and its rising on two sides (f. 49a) like a great mountain, and the passage of the Israeli soldiers and the loss of the armies of the Egyptians. Despite all these (extraordinary) matters, the divine Book does not attest that any of the foreign peoples returned to the worship of God, the Exalted, but rather the (holy) Books attest that the Children of Israel, who are the people of God, after their ascent from the sea, ahead of the Pharaoh, and having seen those strange signs and the great wonders, they also worshipped the planets, the celestial bodies, the humans persons and the persons of the animals, and they (also) worshipped the calf, whose existence was well-known (to them). They said to the Calf: "This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt. All that (happened) because they relied on the things existing in front of them, and the worshipped (deity) was concealed from them. For the demons used to speak face to face with their worshippers.

(f. 49b) The Children of Israel had lived in Egypt and had seen these deeds. They mixed in their blood and in their veins, and were encouraged when witnessing those wonderful matters and the wonderful signs such as magic, - - - , talismans, and divination. All nations went to hell for a number of years, till the enactment of the law of our Lord Jesus Christ. He ordered the Apostles, saying: "Go and teach all nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," (this being) an indication against those who used to say that the spirit of the deities emanates onto the bodies so as to be a mediator between them and the worshippers. Moreover, our lords the Apostles made innumerable signs which magicians cannot make, such as the raising of the dead, the lifting up of the crippled, the healing of the blind (f. 50a) and the mad. Their turning (into healthy bodies) is easy unto God, the Exalted. They shattered the idols and destroyed the temples (?). All miracles that the apostles were doing, they were doing them with these three attributes, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - because they were called by them (the gentiles) "the triunity", because they used to say: "The Creator is the spirit of the celestial sphere." This is found in the book of al-Ist;amasis. The wise Aristotle said: "There was in the clime of Mercury a man whom the spirit of Mercury had clothed. He was called Afridun the wise, and he was a wise king. Mercury said to him: ‘I am choosing you and assuming you as a wise man for me, and I am clothing you with a spirit that will abide with you. I am making you my cultic leader, but you shall make for me a fixed feast. Gather all the people of your reign and call them to (follow) me! (f. 50b) If you (and your people) do that, I shall emanate my spirit upon you, and I shall give you what you demand.’ In the morning, Afridun informed the high officials of his state and the people of his reign about the whole vision which he had seen.

The people of that clime belonged to different religions, and they did as he had told them. A spirit came, like a torch of fire, and spoke thus: ‘O Afridun, behold I am staying with you and helping you in your affair against them.’" Here is Christ the Lord, in the grace of the Holy Spirit which alighted upon the disciples in the upper room of Zion and annulled the spirit of Afridun and his satanic stratagems, with the power of the Holy Spirit and the life-giving spirit of God.

We will also inform you about what Afridun did and (what) God (did) against him, by means of the prophet Moses. The spirit spoke through Afridun and said: "(You are) my clime and my share (f. 51a), and I shall clothe you with my spirit, my rule and my direction. I am making one my spirits between me and you. So protect it and keep it from impurities and filth, and conceal it from the eyes of the common people. When you want anything, enter and ask the spirit, and I shall give that to you." Afridun ordered that a spacious house be cleaned up and a golden throne be placed in it. The people in the house were to offer seven goats. The goats were then skinned and their fat was put around the table. He made special prayers, whilst incensing with that incense. He then took the meat, brought it out and ordered that it be cooked, and he prepared enough bread for the people of that country. When he did that, and invoked those names, that spirit appeared in its well-known form. It made laws and norms for it and ordered that (f. 51b) it shoulb be served by four beautiful youths whose faces are free from hair. Then that spirit remained inside that place, sniffing the fat of that meat. Then Afridun ate, and he ordered them to eat quietly, in silence and without speaking. He ordered that whatever remained of it they should carry it to their houses and distribute it among their households.

God (was) against them by means of Moses, and annulled their action. Firstly, he appeared to Moses from the fire, then he ordered Moses to make the Dome of Time. He ordered that in its midst he should make a stove altar, when the fire of the spirit descended towards it. He charged the sons of Aaron to guard it, and ordered him to sacrifice sacrificial offerings and to put the fat around that place, upon the fire which was on the altar, and to bring out the meat (f. 52a) to the house, and to cook (it) and eat from it quietly and soberly. Then the people, those present, stayed. "O my brethren, consider the greatness of our Lord, how he annihilated the deeds of those who worshipped others instead of him, with his powerful force and the vivifying Spirit of his holiness. We will also instruct you, brethren, that which the dissidents and the averse have done, and how our Lord opposed them because of it. Aristotle said to Alexander, on his way to the country of the Persians: "You ought to know, O King, that the country of the Persians is extensive and has desolate wastes and dry deserts. Your army is a tremendous one and great in number, and you must have with you talismans which help you attain the desired goal and facilitate for you your great affairs. It is (the following): make an ark of iron (f. 52b) and put inside it a statue made of iron, gold, silver, and copper in your image, and an iron statue representing your armies riding on horses, and make statues of bent lead (?), with its hand (turned) backwards, and in the other hand a lance of lead, reversed backwards. Everyone shall have a bow with broken chord. You shall put between the two of them, in the ark, an iron veil - I mean, between your armies and their enemies - then offer a sacrifice and incense to Bandarit;us, king of the talismans, and glorify and magnify him profusely. Then you shall take it with you wherever you go -- with you and with your soldiers -- and wherever you go, you shall put the ark in front of you, and nobody shall touch it, except you. Whoever is present with you and offers incense to Bandarit;us, you and whoever is with you shall be safe from all the enemies (f. 53a) and the adversaries."

God, the Exalted, opposed him when he said to Moses: "Make an ark and place in it the tablet of the covenant, the staff of Moses and Aaron, and the container of the manna. Nobody shall touch it, except the priests from the tribe of Levi. Wherever you go to fight the enemies, the priests shall carry the ark in front of the soldiers, glorifying and jubilating, and they shall return behind them (behind the soldiers) and they (your enemies) shall be broken and the movements of their hands shall be lax." Consider, our brethren, the people of God: God annulled with this ark - made on the command of God - the power of the ark made in the name of Bandarit;us, the enemy of God. Consider, our brethren, the wisdom, the power, and the marvels of God.

Moreover we inform you (about the following): Aristotle said to Alexander: "Make four talismans; one of them will make waters gush out in the desolate steppes (f. 53b) and the dry deserts. And it (works in this way): you shall take such and such (a quantity of) lead, and such (a quantity of) gold and make it in such and such a form, and offer a sacrifice to Bandarit;us. When you settle in the dry deserts, put this talisman on your right hand and you shall say this incantation. Offer a sacrifice, there, and burn incense to Bandarit;us. He shall make waters from springs gush out for you, whatever is sufficient to you and to your army, and (the waters) will flow over the face of the earth." God opposed him with his saying to Moses - when thirst got hold of the people in the desert - Our Lord said to Moses: "O Moses, strike the rock with your staff and it will make water to gush out for the people to drink -- they, their riding beasts and their small cattle." Moses did that, and God ordered that stone to be carried wherever they went and wherever they settled. Why did God do this? (f. 54a) Because the people of the Children of Israel were magnifying the gods of the peoples and were inclined towards their worship, because of what they heard about them concerning strange magical matters, and the minds of the Children of Israel inclined towards them.

Aristotle also said to Alexander: "Moreover, O Alexander, there shall be with you talismans preventing fatigue, barefootedness, sicknesses and diseases." The powerful God opposed them by the staying of the Children of Israel for forty years in the desert, safe from sicknesses, accidents and diseases. Their garments did not get torn, neither the shoes of their feet, and their riding beasts did not get tired. He covered them from the sun by the cloud, and at night by the column of fire.

Aristotle also said to him: "Make a trnj (?) fat which will repell the savage beasts, the snakes, the vipers, the insects and the harmful beasts of prey." (f. 54b) God opposed him when he said to Moses: "Make a snake of copper and put it on the head of a lance. Whoever is bitten by a snake shall look at this copper snake and shall be healed. And likewise (they will be safe from) all the harmful animals and the damaging insects." As he said in Ps[alm] 90 that he who relies on God "... shall tread upon the asp and the viper, and shall trample the lion and the dragon, because he has hoped in me, and I shall deliver him, save him and protect him."

He (Aristotle) also told him: "Make a talisman, so that when you enter a city, and its inhabitants escape from you and enter inside their fortresses, fortifying themselves, and keeping themselves inaccessible to you with their stratagems, on a Sunday night you shall place that ark containing the talismans and ask Bandarit;us, and he shall open for you the city without fighting." God opposed him by means of Joshua son of (f. 55a) Nun. The people of Jericho escaped from him and fortified their fortresses. He ordered the priests to carry the ark of the covenant and to go around the city for six days. On the seventh day, in the morning, the priests carried the ark and Joshua said: "Raise your voices, for God gave you this country!" So they shouted to God, the Exalted, and went around the city, and the seven walls of the city fell and its inhabitants were exterminated. Aristotle also said to Alexander: "Take a pearl, make it a stone for your ring, put it in your finger and all the people shall obey you. When you seal a letter with your seal to one of the kings, and send it to him, he will not disobey you. You ou shall offer a sacrifice to Bandarit;us so that he may expedite the granting of your necessity." God opposed thim when Joshua went up from the Jordan and the people (f. 55b) were carrying the ark of the covenant in which there was the stone engraved by the finger of God. And they went to the country of their enemies. He said: "When the ark went up, and the Amorites and the Canaanites heard (this) their hearts melted out of fear, as is mentioned in the fifth book: "One Israeli defeats one hundred, and one hundred defeat myriads." Then we will follow this (account) with a little of that with which God opposed the nations, through our Lord Jesus Christ. We shall, then, instruct you also (that) Alexander asked Aristotle saying: "From which types of spirits is Bandarit;us?" Aristotle said to him: "He is a spirit born from ‘Adyus, the spirit of the moon, and Mamus, the spirit of Jupiter. That is because ‘Adyus is from the clime of Jupiter and Ist;ahmamus, and from it was born (f. 56a) Bandarit;us, the lord of the talismans." And the wise and the philosophers used to magnify Bandarit;us and offer him sacrifices, and they would magnify him exceedingly. This was still going on in their minds until our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of humanity, opposed him with his birth and his baptism, and (with) the breaking of the idols and the destruction of the temples (?), and with his power he annulled the demons’ deeds and those cults. In compensation for the birth of Bandarit;us from the spirit of Jupiter, He was born from a pure virgin by means of the Holy Spirit, without seed, and he came (among us) united with the Word of God the Exalted. That (happened) with the annunciation of the angel to our lady the Virgin Mary, peace be upon her. He said to her: "The Holy Spirit shall alight upon you and the power of the Most High shall overshadow you, because he who is born (f. 56b) from you will be called the Most Holy and the Son of God."

We shall also inform you concerning Saturn. Saturn emanated seventy-two of its spirits onto seventy-two men, and taught them sorcery and magic to attract people by sorcery, incantations and talismans. The Lord Jesus Christ opposed them with seventytwo evangelizers and twelve Apostles and sent them to the countries of the earth to attract the people to the worship of God the Exalted. When he sent them out (to preach), he said to them: "Heal the sick, make straight the crippled and expel the demons. Freely have you taken, and freely shall you give." With his saying "expel the demons" He gave them the power to annul the movement of the talismans.

Know that the book of al-Ist;amasis attested that every one (f. 57a) of the spirits of the seven planets has channels in the human bodies. Firstly, the spirit of the Sun runs in seven veins of the mind. The spirit of the moon runs in seven veins of the lung and the throat, and the spirit of Jupiter in seven veins of the heart. The spirit of Mercury runs in seven veins of the liver, the spirit of Mars runs in seven veins of the gall bladder, and the spirit of Saturn runs in seven veins of the spleen. The spirit of Venus runs in seven veins of the kidney. He said: "The veins of these parts are interconnected and interpose each other. That is similar to the constitutions of the macrocosm and the upper celestial sphere. (f. 57b) And for this reason man has been called the microcosm." And these defiled diabolic spirits continued flowing in these mentioned veins to mislead humanity. Therefore Christ enacted the law of baptism which is bathing in holy water, to expel, with the Spirit of God, the evil spirits. It ordered that the person to be baptized should be anointed with holy oil on the head, the liver, the heart and the kidney, and the rest of the human parts (a lacuna?) which distinguish the mentioned parts, and the mentioning of the cross of Christ when they are anointed. It ordered the godfather to say: "I renounce you, Satan, and all your power, all your filthy commands and your bad sayings." Its completion is (found in) what is written in (f. 58a) the book of baptism. Then the priest blows over his mouth (i.e. the mouth of person baptized) to expel, with the Holy Spirit, all the defiled spirits. Then (Christ) enacted the law of the sacrifice: the holy bread which is the body of Christ and his blood, born of the Holy Spirit, so as to flow, always, in the channels of the aforementioned parts, thus avoiding the arrival and settlement of the bad spirits and the diabolic thoughts, and so that the bodies acquire an overpowering force. For this reason Christ the Lord said to those who become defiled after baptism: "The unclean spirit, when it leaves man, wanders in waterless regions looking for rest, but it finds none, and it says: ‘I will return to my house from which I came out.’ And it will come and it will find it empty, swept and (f. 58b) put in order. It will (then) go and take seven spirits more evil than itself, and the end of that person will be worse than his beginning." And he made clear that whatever wanders in the aforementioned seven parts of the entire body in the unclean diabolic spirits (a lacuna?)

As regards the sect of the Magians, we also mention to you what Zoroaster did in the days of ‘Adyun (sic), the eighty-second king since Adam. He opened the temples of fire and made manifest miracles which attracted souls to obey him. Among his signs (he used to do the following): he used to be where the people were, so that they find themselves in the temples of fire, and those who look on think that they got burnt. All that was an act of magic. After (some) time the people were seeing that they (f. 59a) were at fault when they were in their temples, as attested in the Book of ZBHR and in other books of the Magians. Zoroaster also said this to his disciples: "Whoever does not eat my body and drink my blood, and mixes with me and I mix with him, he shall not have salvation." When his deeds became great and his call spread throughout existence, they boiled him and drank his brew (?). Christ the Lord, the Saviour of the world, opposed them with the true resuscitation of the dead, the healing of sicknesses and diseases, the cleaning of the lepers and the evildoers, the healing of the chronically ill and the disarticulated, the expulsion of demons and the annulment of the works of Zoroaster from all existence. At the end, our Lord said to his disciples: "Whoever eats my body and drinks my blood, he shall have perpetual life."

He also said, opposing him (Zoroaster?): "Whoever wants to save his life, let him lose it, (f. 59b) and whoever loses his life for my sake and for the sake of my Gospel, shall save it." Then, after that, the Christian believers changed concerning his love (?): a people with the sword and a people with fire, and so on, being certain of their rising from death to life everlasting.

He also ordered the Apostles, saying to them: "Go, teach all the nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." When he sent them to the country of the Jews, in which his name was known, they did not address them with this expression (?), but he ordered them, first, telling them: "Go to the surrounding lands, in the Jordan, and announce to them the good news of the kingdom of God, to whom befits glory and thanksgiving, now and always and for ever and ever, Amen." He said: "And the divine Book said (f. 60a): ‘And Moses came to the enemy, and all the messengers after him, and none of them returned to the worship of the Exalted. Even the Children of Israel, his own people, most of them were secretly worshipping the idols and prostrating themselves before the stars, as attested in the books of the Law. They took for themselves the calf and prostrated themselves before it, saying: This is your god, O Israel, who brought you out of the land of Egypt.’" That (happened) when Moses was (still) present (among them), because they relied on verifying things by the appearance of their senses, and the concealment of the worshipped (deity) from their eyes, and (because of) their inclination towards the worship of idols and the visible things whose existence they can be see. Therefore they worshipped the planets and the celestial bodies whose existence can be demonstrated, and on account of the appearance of their traces and effects. (f. 60b) So they renounced its (i.e. creation’s) Originator and its Creator, because of his concealment from their eyes. And on account of his superabundant compassion and mercy towards them, and because he knows that, whenever his existence is not proven by the evidence which comes from the senses, they do not grasp his existence at all, he made himself in human forms to the prophets who were sent to them. The Exalted took upon himself the bodily characteristics and the requirements of humankind. So he appeared to some of them in the form of a whole man sitting upon the seat of the Cherubim, and to some he appeared sitting on the throne, and to Abraham (he appeared) in the form of a man crossing his camp. The Torah said: "And God spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend." And he said in the Torah: "And God descended in the pillar of cloud and stood above the Dome of the Testimony (i.e. the tabernacle)."

(f. 61a) Concerning the ten commandments written in the stone tablets, he said that they were written by the finger of God." Thereupon he said to Moses: "Tell the Children of Israel: ‘Today you have heard him who spoke to you from the pillar of cloud. So do not take for yourselves idols.’"

As regards his characterization with human organs, such as the eye, the hand, and the emotional states, such as anger and satisfaction, much is as was written and known. All of that (happens) in order that the Exalted may assert his presence among them by that which is familiar to them. So they worshipped him, as was appropriate, because the Exalted has body members and organs! May he be exalted far above that! When the prophets and messengers succeeded each other, and the people did not renounce their worship of the idols, the celestial bodies, the planets and the animals, (f. 61b) God, the Exalted, warned them that the day shall come when he shall make a most clear appearance. You should know that when God, the Exalted, imposed the law of justice, he supported it with signs (miracles) and, through it, called upon the Children of Israel to affirm only his divinity and existence. He did not expect too much of them concerning that. And since they did not know him as they should, but in most cases they were secretly worshipping idols and offering incense to the planets of the sky, and doing what is not allowed legally and mentally, as attested in the books of the law, he threatened them, through the prophets, that he would cut them off from his aid, and that he would bring forth a nation, instead of them, which would always praise him, and whose conscience will not need the existence of anybody else (apart from God), as he said through (next folio) the prophet ... (end of MS).
Roger Pearse is offline  
Old 02-02-2008, 06:49 AM   #185
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 4,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Pearse View Post
Dr Martin Zamit made the following transcription and English translation of Mingana manuscript 142, folios 48a to 61b:
Thanks for this Roger (and thanks to Dr Zamit).

a/ This makes clear that there is no mention of Mithras in this text (nor apparently in any of the related texts.)

b/ This makes clear how closely related this text is to the ibn-Saba passage on the Sabeans which you have already made available earlier in this thread.

Andrew Criddle
andrewcriddle is offline  
Old 02-02-2008, 08:05 AM   #186
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,370
Default

Yes, nothing on Mithras at all (which is nice to confirm).

I'm not sure how far into the related texts we need to go; there seems to be a corpus of material, all semi- or entirely fictional floating around by this date. What is needed is a publication of the lot. That might be beyond me, tho.

* I'm still trying to induce my contact in Beirut either to produce something from the Commentary on the Nicene Creed of al-Majdalus, or admit that it has defeated him. From my reading of Graf, it looks as if issuing a commentary on the Nicene creed highlighting your own christology was a common tactic for inter-confessional polemic in Arab times; there seem to be a few of these, from all sides.

* I'm also still trying to get someone from BYU to communicate, and see if we can get that fragment from Severus ibn-Mukaffa.

* I have ordered images of a fragment of the Arabic apology of the Abbot Gerasimus, which apparently contains possibly related stuff, from the Beirut library, and will try to get that translated also.

Not sure what to go for beyond that. Half of John ibn Saba is unpublished; the PO edition only did half of it. But my urge to pay people to do it is low.

As an incidental note, now that I have discovered that vol. 1 of Graf (which covers translations of Christian literature into Arabic) is unavailable, I've uploaded a PDF to lulu.com as a private item and asked for a print-off. It will be interesting to see what arrives.

It looks as if the firm (http://www.corlet.fr) who print the Sources Chrétiennes also do print-on-demand.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
Roger Pearse is offline  
Old 02-14-2008, 11:06 AM   #187
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 4,876
Default

I've been comparing the three interesting texts Ibn Saba, Mingana 142 and Mingana 481.

The resemblances between Mingana 142 and Ibn Saba against 481 are obvious but there are interesting agreements between Ibn Saba and Mingana 481 against 142. Plato in the Book of Mysteries/Secrets and Aristotle in the Book/Treasure of Treasures are obvious but there are more if you realise that Ormuz the Sage in Ibn Saba is actually Hermes (correctly rendered in 481) (I suspect that the Sage Sabla in Ibn Saba is actually the (pseudo-) Sibylline Oracles although the Oracle quoted is not found in the standard collections)

However there appear to be no significant agreements of Mingans manuscripts 142 and 481 against Ibn Saba, ie Ibn Saba is the middle term of the three, having both denunciations of the Sabaeans/Magians and pagan oracles predicting Christ, whereas the two Mingana texts each have only one of these themes.

This can be interpreted in several ways and the texts are unlikely to be directly derived from each other. However this analysis, tends IMHO to confirm my impression that Mingana 481 is the earliest form of this tradition and Mingana 142 a very late development with Ibn Saba somewhere in the middle.

Andrew Criddle
andrewcriddle is offline  
Old 02-14-2008, 12:57 PM   #188
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Coast, Canada
Posts: 333
Default

I was trying to find a reference to that quote that I read quite some time ago, and I can't find it.

Anyway, from what I remember, That quote was inscribed on a temple wall in Rome(?) that was used for Mithra worship. The current site has another building built on top of it.

I don't know how accurate this is as I can't find the article. It likely wouldn't mean much unless it was dated anyway.
JohnG is offline  
Old 02-14-2008, 01:35 PM   #189
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Massachusetts, USA -- Let's Go Red Sox!
Posts: 1,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
I was trying to find a reference to that quote that I read quite some time ago, and I can't find it.

Anyway, from what I remember, That quote was inscribed on a temple wall in Rome(?) that was used for Mithra worship. The current site has another building built on top of it.

I don't know how accurate this is as I can't find the article. It likely wouldn't mean much unless it was dated anyway.
You're probably thinking of this one, which is (according to Betz, 1968) line 14 of the Santa Prisca inscription, dated ca. 220 CE:

Quote:
Et nos servasti eternali sanguine fuso

And you saved us after having shed the eternal blood
ETA: The blood in question almost certainly belongs to the bull, and not Mithras himself.
God Fearing Atheist is offline  
Old 02-14-2008, 02:30 PM   #190
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Coast, Canada
Posts: 333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by God Fearing Atheist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
I was trying to find a reference to that quote that I read quite some time ago, and I can't find it.

Anyway, from what I remember, That quote was inscribed on a temple wall in Rome(?) that was used for Mithra worship. The current site has another building built on top of it.

I don't know how accurate this is as I can't find the article. It likely wouldn't mean much unless it was dated anyway.
You're probably thinking of this one, which is (according to Betz, 1968) line 14 of the Santa Prisca inscription, dated ca. 220 CE:

Quote:
Et nos servasti eternali sanguine fuso

And you saved us after having shed the eternal blood
ETA: The blood in question almost certainly belongs to the bull, and not Mithras himself.

That's the one. Santa Prisca.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Prisca
JohnG is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:26 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.