aa5874

I need evidence, where is it? You have offered nothing but speculation. Tell me in which post you have offered any evidence, give me the number of that post.

There is no corroborated evidence that Jesus Christ was born or lived. Where is your evidence that Jesus was historic? Fundamentalist agree with you, that Jesus Christ is historic. In fact fundamentalists are champions of the historic and inerrant view.

I have asked you time and time again, was Jesus Christ born before the death of Herod or during the census of Cyrenius? Did Jesus Christ live in Egypt or Nazareth, as a child ? Did Herod kill all the babies of the region while Jesus Christ was in Egypt? Who is the grandfather of Jesus Christ, Jacob or Heli?

Without any supporting evidence, I will maintain that Jesus Christ is fictional.

Doug Shaver

I provided some. You are ignoring it.

I offered facts.

You responded to that post in this thread just two days ago. You are not going to bully me into jumping through any hoops for you.

I never said there was. I said there was evidence. Evidence does not become nonexistent just because it is not corroborated.

You can ask those questions every minute of every day between now and the end of the world, for I care. They are irrelevant to the point I am making.

aa5874

Your point is, Jesus Christ is historic because the Bible says so, that is exactly the same point made by the fundamentalist.

Doug Shaver

That was never my point. I never said it.

EarlOfLade

As far from beeing an expert on the bible, it just strikes me that if some parts are fiction and some are true, which are which and how do you decide? It seems to me that the various christian cults freely chooses the ones they think are real and the ones they think are fiction and this may be totally different than what the next cult claims.

I would in general classify a book that contains fiction and facts as overall a book of fiction. Or do you think that, let's say The DaVinci Code is facts when we know that it builds on both fact and fiction? To me the whole books is fiction just because it uses fictional metaphores, same with the bible.

aa5874

Your statement makes sense in my opinion. The Christian Bible appears to be fictional in every aspect. Even if you do not take into account the miraculous birth, life, ressurection and ascension of Jesus Christ, you still can not confirm with any degree of certainty that Jesus Christ was born, lived and died.

Why is it that Jesus Christ, just accepting him as an ordinary person, did not write a single word to propagate his message? All the great religious founders have written documents, with great detail, for their followers, yet Jesus Christ did not write one single word of doctrine, he just vanished.

In Luke 2:40-50, Jesus Christ is catergorised as as filled with wisdom, so much so that the doctors were astonished. I would have thought that Jesus Christ would have been writing profusely, so that when his time was come, everyone would have documented evidence and knowledge of the Gospel, but instead we have nothing.

I regard the Christian Bible as fiction, hence the characters, Jesus Christ included, must also be, unless evidence can prove otherwise.

achristianbeliever

Seutonius in the Twelve Caesars says divine forms set fire to the body of Julius Caesar.

Josephus has miraculous claims in it. Tacitus has miracles for Vespasian. Your gonna be throwing out a lot of ancient documents if your saying its fiction if it has fictional sounding elements.

Ummmmm. Not Buddha I'm afraid. Also I think Socrates didn't write anything himself.

aa5874

However, you do not believe anything like that happened, divine forms do not exist, which includes Jesus Christ.

If we throw out the miraculous, we would also throw out Jesus Christ. I have no problem with that.
I am not dealing with Josephus or Tacitus now, I am focused on what appears to be a fictious book called the Christian Bible.

Buddha is mythical, isn't he the offspring of an elephant? Socrates is a philosopher, of whom we know little of, but he didn't claim to be the son of God or start a religion.

How can it be that Jesus Christ did not write a single word for his followers when these are his so-called utterings, Matthew 4:4, '...It is written, Man shall live not by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Yet Jesus wrote nothing.

Amaleq13

It seems to me that such a statement indicates a belief that everything that needed to be known had already been written and was contained in that which was considered by Jesus to be from "the mouth of God". In the specific context of the Gospel attributed to Matthew, that would clearly be Jewish Scripture.

I would not expect a man who asserted Mt 4:4 to feel it necessary or even consider it appropriate to write anything since anything worth being written down would certainly be obtained from Scripture.

Doug Shaver

It can be difficult, but so what? As others have pointed out in this thread, there are numerous examples of writings that are almost universally conceded to be a mix of fact and fiction. The notion that any document must be seen as entirely one or entirely the other is simply absurd. And what's more, nobody to my knowledge has ever urged its application to any writing other than the Bible.

You can stick whatever label you like on it. I don't care about the taxonomy. I care about the ridiculous notion that if a book contains any known falsehood, then every statement in it must be considered false.

I think that book is a work of fiction. I do not infer that therefore DaVinci must not really have painted The Last Supper.