Freethought & Rationalism Archive

virtuzoso · 04-28-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitalOne

What? Jesus Christ does not say that you either accept him or go to hell....rather he says quite the opposite...

"Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."

But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."" (Luke 9:49-50)

According to Jesus anyone who is not against Christ, like say Gautama Buddha, Krishna, Lao Tzu, etc...is actually for Christ...

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

That is the problem with citing a flawed source, it can be twisted to most any purpose :P.

The reality is, most modern religions say you either believe thier version or burn in hell. Anyone that doesnt say that doesnt fully believe in thier version to begin with. After all, the stakes are ( supposedly) eternal life.

VitalOne · 04-28-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by virtuzoso

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

That is the problem with citing a flawed source, it can be twisted to most any purpose :P.

The reality is, most modern religions say you either believe thier version or burn in hell. Anyone that doesnt say that doesnt fully believe in thier version to begin with. After all, the stakes are ( supposedly) eternal life.

In that context by "me" Jesus is referring to the way, the truth, therefore Jesus is saying "no man cometh unto the Father, but by the way, the truth (me)"...also since Jesus says that anyone who is not against him, is for him, then technically anyone not against Jesus is indirectly following Jesus just the same....

LoungeHead · 04-28-2007, 07:38 PM

haha... an argument about what Jesus said... how atypical [/sarcasm].

Gawen · 04-29-2007, 07:09 AM

..also since Jesus says that anyone who is not against him, is for him, then technically anyone not against Jesus is indirectly following Jesus just the same....

Luke 6:26: "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
That seems simple enough. Wouldn't you expect Jesus to love his enemies?

But what we find in Mark 16:15-16 is surprising as it shows us how Jesus treats his enemies:
Mark 16:15-16: "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned [to hell].
Yes, even those that will not believe become an enemy and are treated harshly in the afterlife.

Luke 19:27: But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Although Jesus in one instance calls for the love of enemies, at the end of the parable of ten pounds, he orders to slay his enemies that would deny his reign (Luke 19:12-27). Despite the commandment not to kill, Jesus accepts the killing of humans.

virtuzoso · 04-29-2007, 10:04 AM

just one more reason not to be a christian. Some one asked how you saw through christianity? I don't know, I found it quite simple, common sense, really.

The amount of hypocrisy in most 'christian' religions is what did it for me.

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04-28-2007, 07:38 PM	#53
LoungeHead Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 3,483	haha... an argument about what Jesus said... how atypical [/sarcasm].

04-29-2007, 07:09 AM	#54
Gawen Contributor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart Posts: 10,326	..also since Jesus says that anyone who is not against him, is for him, then technically anyone not against Jesus is indirectly following Jesus just the same.... Luke 6:26: "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. That seems simple enough. Wouldn't you expect Jesus to love his enemies? But what we find in Mark 16:15-16 is surprising as it shows us how Jesus treats his enemies: Mark 16:15-16: "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned [to hell]. Yes, even those that will not believe become an enemy and are treated harshly in the afterlife. Luke 19:27: But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me." Although Jesus in one instance calls for the love of enemies, at the end of the parable of ten pounds, he orders to slay his enemies that would deny his reign (Luke 19:12-27). Despite the commandment not to kill, Jesus accepts the killing of humans.

04-29-2007, 10:04 AM	#55
virtuzoso Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 1,019	just one more reason not to be a christian. Some one asked how you saw through christianity? I don't know, I found it quite simple, common sense, really. The amount of hypocrisy in most 'christian' religions is what did it for me.

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