John A. Broussard

Great! Now we can move on. How can we tell whether or not something is miraculous.

For example. Is the recent Virgin of the Underpass a miracle?

lee_merrill

Um, no. Um, yes. Um ... I don't know! This is the first I've heard of this, actually.

But to determine a real miracle, we can check with science! Like with forensics, we can investigate if a given event was natural causes, or sleight of hand, then if it is not any of these, it may indeed be "the finger of God" (Ex. 8:19)...

Or to quote the detective, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." (Sherlock Holmes)

Regards,
Lee

John A. Broussard

Don't be so wishy-washy Lee. If your eye were gouged out in an accident and while you're standing there with people looking at you another grew in its place, wouldn't you say "This is indeed the finger of god."

Now, of course, we come to the important question. People report extraordinary miracles. Has anyone you know prayed for a new eye and had it grow back. It would seem that would be just as easy for god to do as curing someone of "incurable" cancer. And, yet, it never happens.

Any idea why?? Any suspicion why?

lee_merrill

Yes, because science can tell us that this is (for all practical purposes) impossible naturally, or by human intervention.

It seems it did happen though:

Matthew 11:4-6 Jesus replied, "Go back and report to John what you hear and see: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me."

The word "lame" here includes people without arms and legs, as well as those with no evident disability. And this to someone who was being denied a miracle, which makes it more poignant.

Now we can dispute this account, just as we can dispute any account, yet we do have some indication here. And I have been at a church were there was an account of a man who received his sight. It came out kind of incidentally, as a preacher was speaking, he asked if there was anyone who had given God thanks today for sight. And one man raised his hand, and the preacher said "The man who had his sight restored," or words to that effect…

Regards,
Lee

John A. Broussard

Please, lee, read what I write before you answer. I wasn't talking about restoring sight, I was stating, specifically, that a missing eye was restored.

Now let's try it again. Have you seen any faith healers grow an eye back? A leg back?

How about someone who's had his head cut off and reaches down and puts it back on? I'm not being humorous about that. Stories were told about saints in the middle ages who did that. Now, there is a miracle. Do you believe it could have happened?

Amaleq13

"Not one wooden leg!" --Max Weigand, on noticing the pile of crutches at Lourdes

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

Well, I did give some testimony of just that sort of miracle, in the gospels, Jesus is recorded as doing that.

Matthew 14:36 ... and all who touched him were healed.

I told the nearest parallel in my experience, but I'm not actually one who has much faith in faith healers, anyone who takes a title of "healer" has gotten off track by virtue of that pronouncement about themselves, IMHO.

If I'm going to look for miracles like these, I shall look elsewhere. You might read some reports coming from Gospel for Asia!

That strikes me as "Not in the family style" (C.S. Lewis' expression), not the sort of miracle God would be involved in. Yet I believe this is within God's power, to raise the dead. And I've heard stories along those lines, from China, as another example, of a man who broke into his house in a rage, with an ax, killed his wife and daughter for attending church, and then their bodies rose up to heaven, apparently, and he went and told the officials, when he turned in their ID cards.

That's not a resurrection, but I have read of resurrections, too, as in "Only Love Can Make a Miracle," by Mahesh Chavda. Which might indicate to me why the faith healers are off track, if they called themselves love healers, I might be more inclined to consider them...

Regards,
Lee

John A. Broussard

I'm truly amazed, lee. That you would even repeat the above story, much less believe it, is beyond me.

lee_merrill

I don't suppose that God could do this? And the resurrection in the book by Mahesh Chavda has some doctor documentation...

Regards,
Lee

ImmortalTechnique

actually, lee, according to your own source:
Sunset marks the start of the 12 night hours, whereas sunrise marks the start of the 12 day hours. This means that night hours may be longer or shorter than day hours, depending on the season.

so the day hours start at sunrise, just like the roman calendar... so the third hour of the day and the sixth hour of the day are quite different times no matter what calendar you are using