Freethought & Rationalism Archive

No Robots · 10-02-2009, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failte

I know a lot of 'christians' who have broken with 'the church' to create their own little splinter groups. Usually the reason is ego, or a vague dissatisfaction with some tiny aspect of belief that they don't agree with, so they reject "the church" and claim that it is wrong and misguided and that THEY have the only true answer. It's incredibly arrogant.

And, yet, if a person were to say, "I completely embrace the teachings of so-and-so," skeptics would jump all over him for not thinking for himself.:huh:

Dark Virtue · 10-02-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failte

I know a lot of 'christians' who have broken with 'the church' to create their own little splinter groups. Usually the reason is ego, or a vague dissatisfaction with some tiny aspect of belief that they don't agree with, so they reject "the church" and claim that it is wrong and misguided and that THEY have the only true answer. It's incredibly arrogant.

And, yet, if a person were to say, "I completely embrace the teachings of so-and-so," skeptics would jump all over him for not thinking for himself.:huh:

Not if they did so for rational reasons.

IBIH doesn't fall into that category.

Clivedurdle · 10-02-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Do you have a camera, any photographs, magazines, pictures, a TV at home?

OMG.............he has been looking at a COMPUTER SCREEN!
he has seen of the image.

and money.....

I'm not sure if anyone picked up my quote mining.....

gdeering · 10-02-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

[

I'm not sure if anyone picked up my quote mining.....

I, for one, did not. But, Sheshbazzar, love your Ned Beatty/Network moment.

Gregg

IBelieveInHymn · 10-02-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failte

I know a lot of 'christians' who have broken with 'the church' to create their own little splinter groups. Usually the reason is ego, or a vague dissatisfaction with some tiny aspect of belief that they don't agree with, so they reject "the church" and claim that it is wrong and misguided and that THEY have the only true answer. It's incredibly arrogant.

And, yet, if a person were to say, "I completely embrace the teachings of so-and-so," skeptics would jump all over him for not thinking for himself.:huh:

That's actually a good point. But when a Christian decides to think for him or herself, they are critcized for it. :huh:

IBelieveInHymn · 10-02-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failte

I know a lot of 'christians' who have broken with 'the church' to create their own little splinter groups. Usually the reason is ego, or a vague dissatisfaction with some tiny aspect of belief that they don't agree with, so they reject "the church" and claim that it is wrong and misguided and that THEY have the only true answer. It's incredibly arrogant.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...icle/910021024

MIAMI - Hundreds of congregants have left a pioneering megachurch in Florida to form their own congregation because they were unhappy with leadership at a church that is seen as a bedrock of the religious right.

I'm not alone in this debate.

Christians everywhere are leaving their house of worship.

IBelieveInHymn · 10-02-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failte

As you can see, quite a few people agree with you on this one.

But, setting aside the oily televangelist trying to route that money to themselves, isn't this was christians are supposed to do? Give up their worldly possessions and follow Christ? They're supposed to give to the poor (which many churches facilitate with donations) -- right?

Yes, Jesus did say Give to the poor, but I highly doubt these tv preachers are poor. They are scam artists that should be sent to prison.

Quote:

It's the picking and choosing among the "rules" that really turns me off about christians, though. Oh, I like that rule, so I'll follow it; that rule is difficult or obnoxious or too limiting, so I won't. Over the years, I've come to realize that the billion people calling themselves "christian' reallly have very little in common when it comes to actual belief. Which makes their whole religion suspect.

I don't pick and choose any rules. I read the bible, and I TRY to live accordingly. If I'm wrong in making these decisions, God will inform me on Judgement day. That's all I can do is make my own decisions, and not worry about what someone else has to say about the bible. I'll figure it out on my own.

Failte · 10-02-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

That's actually a good point. But when a Christian decides to think for him or herself, they are critcized for it

I applaud thinking for yourself. However, when you start to redefine words, reinterpret things to your own particular liking in ways that contradict biblical and historical scholars, then we are right to question your views and expect explanations. That none are forthcoming means, to me at least, that I am also right to reject your opinions as uneducated and biased.

I do not doubt that you are trying to live your life as a good person. I do not doubt that you, at least, believe your justifications for your belief. But "figuring it out on your own" is a recipe for building your own ego-centric religion, not "rediscovering" Christianity.

If you do not pick an choose rules, then I expect you follow ALL the rules set out in the bible? You have already admitted that you do not -- but you haven't answered whether that is because you CANNOT (that is, have failed to live by them) or because you choose not to for whatever reason. Which is it?

IBelieveInHymn · 10-02-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failte

I applaud thinking for yourself. However, when you start to redefine words, reinterpret things to your own particular liking in ways that contradict biblical and historical scholars, then we are right to question your views and expect explanations. That none are forthcoming means, to me at least, that I am also right to reject your opinions as uneducated and biased.

Thank you! :wave:

I would like to know which word(s) I have redefined. All I did was research the root of the word, and I came to a conclusion, and I'm not alone on this subject. Every website I visit, they all say, Jesus said to love God more than your parents. Some of you are acting like I'm making up this stuff.

Quote:

I do not doubt that you are trying to live your life as a good person. I do not doubt that you, at least, believe your justifications for your belief. But "figuring it out on your own" is a recipe for building your own ego-centric religion, not "rediscovering" Christianity.

I figure some things out on my own, and sometimes I research the answers online.

Quote:

If you do not pick an choose rules, then I expect you follow ALL the rules set out in the bible? You have already admitted that you do not -- but you haven't answered whether that is because you CANNOT (that is, have failed to live by them) or because you choose not to for whatever reason. Which is it?

It all depends on which rules you're talking about. From my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of those laws written strictly for the Jews?

Failte · 10-02-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

I would like to know which word(s) I have redefined. All I did was research the root of the word, and I came to a conclusion,

Not in this thread, my apologies, but the whole misew = 'hate' vs 'love less' is in a different thread. You made the absolutely unsupported claim that "jesus spoke hebrew", so you can argue that the written word doesn't mean what it means in a dozen other cases in the bible, and that the word he REALLY would have said is sin'ah, for which there is zero evidence. How could you possibly know this? You can't.

You cannot research the root of the word (in Hebrew) when you have no evidence that it was used at all, or when your underlying assumption (Jesus spoke Hebrew) is unsupported.

I can find websites that support my position (or any other). This does not make them valid or accurate or even honest. The web is full of apologetics that have no basis in fact, just as they are full of information on thousands of other things people disagree on. I will not even dignify arguments that the earth is flat, but there are an awful lot of supporting websites out there. Please don't fall into the idea that "I can find google pages for any problem" as if being on the web automatically makes it true or remotely reliable. Anything on the web has to be taken with a healthy dose of critical thinking.

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