Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Diogenes the Cynic · 02-01-2006, 02:24 PM

That was just a stage Madonna was going through....like when she pretended to be British and Jewish.

Tigers! · 02-01-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

Also, this baby Jesus appears with Mary, usually sitting on Mary's lap or in her arms...Was this an effort to bring Mary into the picture or did it have some other meaning, a monarchic meaning, sort of like Mary introducing the new heir to the subjects...
At what point was Mary and baby Jesus introduced together?
...

Probably when Mary gave birth to Jesus.

Thomas II · 02-02-2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Probably when Mary gave birth to Jesus.

Yes, but in art work. The earliest I remember is in bizantine art.

I found this:
www.fisheaters.com/images.html

and another,if you can excuse the racist influence:

www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr17a.htm

Boro Nut · 02-02-2006, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

And since we are in the subject,what is the deal with the black madonnas?

They're a very convenient way to use up spare vodka.

Boro Nut

Chili · 02-02-2006, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

What is the deal with "baby Jesus"? :huh:
Why is there a "baby Jesus" and not a teenager Jesus?
Why is there a baby Jesus at all?

There is an infancy in awakening wherein the child within must be loved to life as opposed to from her mother's womb untimely ripped.

No unruly teenager, no carpenter, no sin.

The mother-son is the natural fruition of the fruit of the vine for which we have a statue connecting Joseph and Jesus with a vine. I think it is called "the Incarnation."

Chili · 02-02-2006, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berthold

In RC regions, he used to bring the Christmas presents.

In RC regions there are no presents at Christmas. Presents are given to children on Dec.6 and never on Dec.25 when people spend the day at home as if daylight never came on that day.

Thomas II · 02-02-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

In RC regions there are no presents at Christmas. Presents are given to children on Dec.6 and never on Dec.25 when people spend the day at home as if daylight never came on that day.

Actually the presents are given on January 6, and it has to do with the visit by the Three Wise Men, named Melchior,Caspar, and Balthasar, representing Europe, Arabia, and Africa, during the feast of the Epiphany.

Chili · 02-02-2006, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

Actually the presents are given on January 6, and it has to do with the visit by the Three Wise Men, named Melchior,Caspar, and Balthasar, representing Europe, Arabia, and Africa, during the feast of the Epiphany.

You mean Dec. 6 to foreshadow Epiphany. The feast of St. Nicholas has an exciting 4 weeks of anticipation before his arrival and that would not fit in very well during Christmas. It kind of resembles Advent with the same faith/doubt question until finally children know who 'sinterklaas' is = from faith thru doubt to understanding.

I always thought that Balthazar was the 'shady' character. :grin:

Thomas II · 02-02-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

You mean Dec. 6 to foreshadow Epiphany. The feast of St. Nicholas has an exciting 4 weeks of anticipation before his arrival and that would not fit in very well during Christmas. It kind of resembles Advent with the same faith/doubt question until finally children know who 'sinterklaas' is = from faith thru doubt to understanding.

I always thought that Balthazar was the 'shady' character. :grin:

I never heard about Dec.6
Certain places in Europe celebrate Jan.6, the Epiphany.
Balthazar is the African one,so he is black, but I never heard he was "shady".

Chili · 02-02-2006, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

I never heard about Dec.6
Certain places in Europe celebrate Jan.6, the Epiphany.
Balthazar is the African one,so he is black, but I never heard he was "shady".

Jan.6 is Epiphany. That is when children pay tribute to older people by serenading them with songs about Epiphany. They'll dress up like the three kings to this.

Naw, that's just my interpretation. I like the shady one (he's not black).

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02-01-2006, 02:24 PM	#11
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	That was just a stage Madonna was going through....like when she pretended to be British and Jewish.

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