Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jab · 07-14-2008, 05:17 PM

13Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.

It says the Lord will repent him meaning the Lord will forgive him, it says nothing about God changing His mind.

No: In the English of the time this translation was written, "repent him" was a reflexive verb form, like "prepare himself" is today--and "repent" is and was not synonymous with "forgive". You put your God in the position of being a bad writer/ translator, as you do in trying to twist the time sequence in the two verses about the women, the spices and the Sabbath. so your God is not infallible, He writes/ translates near-gibberish.

dr lazer blast · 07-14-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr lazer blast

with the information you have provided me with, this is not a contradiction.

Judas hung himself and he fell from wherever he he had hung himself (a tree probably) and burst asunder in the midst.

Read more carefully. In the first account Judas threw the money down in the temple, and went and hanged himself. In Acts, Judas purchased a field with his blood money. Which is it?:huh:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...20;&version=9;

Matthew 27

Quote:

6And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.

7And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.

8Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day

they bought the field with Judas's money which is why it says Judas obtained it.

dr lazer blast · 07-14-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

13Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.

It says the Lord will repent him meaning the Lord will forgive him, it says nothing about God changing His mind.

No: In the English of the time this translation was written, "repent him" was a reflexive verb form, like "prepare himself" is today--and "repent" is and was not synonymous with "forgive". You put your God in the position of being a bad writer/ translator, as you do in trying to twist the time sequence in the two verses about the women, the spices and the Sabbath. so your God is not infallible, He writes/ translates near-gibberish.

Jab I have told you this before, God did not write the bible. Why do you keep insisting on that?

Deus Ex · 07-14-2008, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr lazer blast

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

Read more carefully. In the first account Judas threw the money down in the temple, and went and hanged himself. In Acts, Judas purchased a field with his blood money. Which is it?:huh:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...20;&version=9;

Matthew 27

Quote:

6And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.

7And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.

8Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day

they bought the field with Judas's money which is why it says Judas obtained it.

How about post #19. You have not addresses that contradiction.

Reason · 07-14-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr lazer blast

First off all, if you read more than just one line you will see what he was talking about.

Jeremiah 26:13

It says the Lord will repent him meaning the Lord will forgive him, it says nothing about God changing His mind.

It depends on which translation you use:

New American Standard Bible: Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will change His mind about the misfortune which He has pronounced against you.

New Revised Standard Version: Now therefore amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God, and the LORD will change his mind about the disaster that he has pronounced against you.

Basic English Bible: So now, make a change for the better in your ways and your doings, and give ear to the voice of the Lord your God; then the Lord will let himself be turned from the decision he has made against you for evil.

World English Bible: Now therefore amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of Yahweh your God; and Yahweh will repent him of the evil that he has pronounced against you.

So, which is it?

dr lazer blast · 07-14-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reason

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr lazer blast

First off all, if you read more than just one line you will see what he was talking about.

Jeremiah 26:13

It says the Lord will repent him meaning the Lord will forgive him, it says nothing about God changing His mind.

It depends on which translation you use:

New American Standard Bible: Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will change His mind about the misfortune which He has pronounced against you.

New Revised Standard Version: Now therefore amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God, and the LORD will change his mind about the disaster that he has pronounced against you.

Basic English Bible: So now, make a change for the better in your ways and your doings, and give ear to the voice of the Lord your God; then the Lord will let himself be turned from the decision he has made against you for evil.

World English Bible: Now therefore amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of Yahweh your God; and Yahweh will repent him of the evil that he has pronounced against you.

So, which is it?

I noticed you do not have the kjv in there, which predates the newer ones you have listed, the newer ones usually get their translations FROM the kjv. Not you have not only failed to produce a scripture that has God saying "I do not change my mind" you have instead produced a scripture that has a human telling another human that God will forgive him, which is not even a contradiction in the logical sense or in any definition found in any dictionary. A contradiction would be as following

God said "I do not change my mind"
God said "I do change my mind"

However you have provided me with.
God said "I do not change my laws" (malachi)
a human said "God will forgive him" (jerimiah)and even if we use the newer versions we have

God said "I do not change my laws"
a human said God will change his mind

which is STILL not a contradiction, so not only have you failed to list the oldest english translation of the bible, you have also failed to produce a scripture where it has God saying "I do not change my mind" and furthermore you have failed to produce a scripture where it has God saying "I do change my mind".

dr lazer blast · 07-14-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

Are we punished for the sins of others:

Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Based upon the information you have given me this is not a contradiction.

There is a difference between death and iniquity so there is no contradiction there, also the scripture in Exodus is talking about divine punishment while the scripture in deuteronomy is talking about punishment from humans, furthermore if you actually read more than one line, one would see deuteronomy is talking about the laws in the community.

Quote:

14 Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns. 15 Pay him his wages each day before sunset, because he is poor and is counting on it. Otherwise he may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin.

16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

17 Do not deprive the alien or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge. 18 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you from there. That is why I command you to do this.

as you can see God is talking about how the hebrews should treat each other, i.e. laws within the community. What God means here by 'put to death' is put to death by each other. If a child murders another hebrew, the father won't be put to death by the other hebrews.

You're going to have to do better than going to www.biblecontradictions.com

Deus Ex · 07-14-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr lazer blast

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

Are we punished for the sins of others:

Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Based upon the information you have given me this is not a contradiction.

There is a difference between death and iniquity so there is no contradiction there, also the scripture in Exodus is talking about divine punishment while the scripture in deuteronomy is talking about punishment from humans, furthermore if you actually read more than one line, one would see deuteronomy is talking about the laws in the community.

Quote:

14 Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns. 15 Pay him his wages each day before sunset, because he is poor and is counting on it. Otherwise he may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin.

16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

17 Do not deprive the alien or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge. 18 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you from there. That is why I command you to do this.

as you can see God is talking about how the hebrews should treat each other, i.e. laws within the community. What God means here by 'put to death' is put to death by each other. If a child murders another hebrew, the father won't be put to death by the other hebrews.

You're going to have to do better than going to www.biblecontradictions.com

What you have shown me is that a fundamentalist will go to ANY lengths to harmonize biblical contradictions, so that they can hang on to their presupposition of biblical inerrancy.

I am not impressed with your answers here, or in the Easter Challenge thread. I could list many more contradictions and scientific errors, but I am quite convinced that you will 'gloss over' all of them.

dr lazer blast · 07-14-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr lazer blast

Based upon the information you have given me this is not a contradiction.

There is a difference between death and iniquity so there is no contradiction there, also the scripture in Exodus is talking about divine punishment while the scripture in deuteronomy is talking about punishment from humans, furthermore if you actually read more than one line, one would see deuteronomy is talking about the laws in the community.

as you can see God is talking about how the hebrews should treat each other, i.e. laws within the community. What God means here by 'put to death' is put to death by each other. If a child murders another hebrew, the father won't be put to death by the other hebrews.

You're going to have to do better than going to www.biblecontradictions.com

What you have shown me is that a fundamentalist will go to ANY lengths to harmonize biblical contradictions, so that they can hang on to their presupposition of biblical inerrancy.

I am not impressed with your answers here, or in the Easter Challenge thread. I could list many more contradictions and scientific errors, but I am quite convinced that you will 'gloss over' all of them.

what you have shown me dues, is that you and a lot of other atheists on this message board have a different definition of the word 'contradiction' then the any reliable acceptable dictionary known to mankind, furthermore dues, you have shown me a baseless assertion, not to mention I don't care about you being impressed or not, I find your inability to respond with a logical, mature statement or rebuttle, combined with your baseless assertion, sarcastic comment as more than enough evidence of your frustration because your 'contradictions' were explained in fact not to be contradictions at all. I find it hilarious and very hypocritical that your defense for this is to simply label any plausible explanations as 'glossing over.' Talk about cognitive dissisence!!! :rolling:

thentian · 07-14-2008, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr lazer blast

...the newer ones usually get their translations FROM the kjv. "

You need to back up this claim.

As far as I know, all the newer translations are translated from the oldest known manuscripts, like Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.

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07-14-2008, 05:17 PM	#31
jab Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,167	13Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you. It says the Lord will repent him meaning the Lord will forgive him, it says nothing about God changing His mind. No: In the English of the time this translation was written, "repent him" was a reflexive verb form, like "prepare himself" is today--and "repent" is and was not synonymous with "forgive". You put your God in the position of being a bad writer/ translator, as you do in trying to twist the time sequence in the two verses about the women, the spices and the Sabbath. so your God is not infallible, He writes/ translates near-gibberish.

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