Queen of Swords

If he valued the ability so much, why didn't he give it to everyone in the Old Testament? What I see there is a god insisting that he be worshipped/obeyed without question and punishing people who thought differently.

Not much relationship there. Unless you mean the kind of relationship that exists between a batterer and a victim.

Would be just as cruel for god to torture people for all eternity because they don't want to sign over their brains.

Magus55

He is however claiming the vast majority of the world has no use for Christianity, implying its wrong or useless. Close enough to call it a fallacy.


2+ Billion Christians, and how many billion Muslims, and i'm sure there are other people while not any of the above hold Christian morals and values to be very useful.


So. Islam holds some value in Christianity since it took direct quotes from the Bible and put it in the Quran, and holds Jesus Christ in very high regard ( just not as high as Christians).


He's one of them. Might be behind Muhammed though, but at least He is the second greatest prophet in Islam.


The statement was in regard to the usefulness of Christianity, not to Jesus' divinity.

Queen of Swords

Exactly. When god showed himself to Adam, Eve, Moses and the people in the New Testament, was he forcing them to believe in him? If so, why did he do it? If not, he could do it again for us.

Magus55

No because believers all chose to be with God of their own will.


Yeah well I don't know about you but it would be pretty hard for me to reject God if I knew for a fact He was real and I'd be in Hell for eternity if i didn't accept Him. At the very least it sways our choice massively in favor of accepting God. You know the whole do what ever it takes to survive ideal. And this is God's creation. Its His rules, His way. He does not bow down to us because we decide that Him revealing His plan to humanity in the past isn't good enough for us. If its not good enough, tough luck. Why should God have to visit every human being on Earth and scream in their face that He's real when they are just too blind to ever accept Him anyway? God's in control, not us. If you don't like His ways, then He offered an alternative so you don't have to spend eternity with Him. Although He warned that being separated from Him is about the worst thing imaginable ( although many here would disagree ).

Hyndis

Interestingly enough, there's almost as much of us heathens as Hindus.

Though Christians still outnumber us 2:1.

Ad Astra

So, if I say "A majority of people in the United States use computers with Intel processors," by your logic, I'd be saying that there is something wrong with AMD chips.

You claimed four billion.

Those people wouldn't be Christians.

Just because religion A borrows a few things from religion B doesn't mean religion A = religion B.


But you claimed he was the highest. No matter how you slice it, you were wrong.

Other than a target or a means to manipulate large numbers of people, who else but Christians would find Christianity all that useful?

Magus55

Abraham is a clear example of this argument being wrong. Abraham had faith and trusted God. God didn't force Him, He chose to follow God.



Nice subtle insult, but I didn't sign over my brain to become a believer. And who said God tortures people? The Bible never says God actually tortures humanity. There are 2 options in the afterlife. With God or without God. With God is the best thing imaginable - a paradise the human mind can't conceive. Without God is the worst thing imaginable. A prison that the human mind can't conceive. Its black and white, there is no grey. You are either for God or against Him.

Magus55

God had to reveal Himself to them to explain His plan of Salvation so they could write it down. And Hell wasn't mentioned to those in the OT. Maybe it wasn't done so because they were required to know of God in order to write down His revelation. The Gentiles don't need to preserve His Revelation, so they were revealed the New Covenant where trust and faith in God without seeing is more important.

Queen of Swords

But god showed himself to some of them. Wasn't that taking away their free will by leaving them with no choice but to conclude that he existed?

The very fact that he would threaten me with hell for not groveling would make me refuse his godfather-like offer.

If we are terrified into accepting, perhaps.

You're making my case for me. Thank you.

And there we have it, folks. It's not about admiring Jesus's principles and wanting to follow them. It's not love. It's all about fear - the fear that god will torture you unendingly if you don't kiss up.

If the rules make no sense, or if they are wrong, why obey them? Unlike the good soldiers of the SS, I don't blindly follow whatever orders I'm given from a supposed authority.

Then he shouldn't expect us to bow down to him. It's that darned equality thing again.

If he could send his son to die for us, he could certainly reveal his plan again in person.

For whom? Him? Yes, he does miss out on some worship, doesn't he? That must hurt.

No one's asking him to scream in anyone's face, Magus. He leaves that to televangelists.

How do you know that they are too blind to accept him? Is that a scientific fact or is it your own unsupportable opinion?

Wrong. The only person in control of my life is me. Likewise, humans are in control of their own lives.

If you don't want to have sex with the man pointing a gun on you, then he offers an alternative.

I'm separated from him right now and my life seems pretty good. So... I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with that as well.

Magus55

If you notice, more than just atheists are included in that category. Its just "Nonreligious". Nonreligious doesn't automatically mean atheist. Atheists are a small minority. Christians probably outnumber atheists 5 or 6:1